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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be a little disappointed that Jesus is being taught as fact in Y1?

366 replies

PoxAlert · 18/09/2018 12:36

We're atheists, so therefore didn't consider any faith schools for our DD.

We want her to learn about all cultures and religions and be tolerant of them all. We have friends of many faiths and beliefs and just want to be kind and happy.

Of course I expect (and welcome) Christianity to be taught in school, but we just got a copy of this term's curriculum (DD just started Y1) and for a non-faith school it seems a bit much.

Or am I being unrealistic and the school and church will always be linked?

Some of the RE points are:

"To learn who Jesus was" "who were his friends" "what did he do?"

I guess I was expecting a "what do Christians believe?" "why do they celebrate Christmas" etc etc than what seems to be a fact based history lesson....

Either way I'm not going to kick up a fuss with school, it's not a big deal really, she's free to make her own decisions in life. Just surprised me a little.

OP posts:
EndeavourVoyage · 19/09/2018 17:38

I wouldn’t worry too much, I went to a catholic school and grew up believing there were NO other religionsGrin. I am an atheist now, my DC went to a controlled school as it was our catchment they were brought up by the school as Christian but ate both non Believers now. She will find her own beliefs in time.

BertrandRussell · 19/09/2018 17:47

I find it extraordinary that people can say "Oh don't worry about it- a bit of Christian prayer never just anybody." I don't care whether it hurts anyone or not- I do not want my children being expected to pray to any god at school, or being told that any religion is true. I am perfectly happy with "some people believe" but there are many teachers and many schools that do not so this. And daily Christian prayer is a statutory requirement- even though many schools quietly omit it.

WrongOnTInternet · 19/09/2018 17:50

Christianity is being taught as fact. There is no evidence for that fact, i.e. that there is a Holy Trinity, a good and fair omniscient god that cares about every single individual, who is accessible via his son Jesus Christ. This is separate from the historical question about the existence of the earthly person Jesus Christ.

This is the familiar story that most of us grow up with. Most of us do not grow up with the story of Allah and Mohammed here (emphasis on most).

We have every right to question it when it is taught as fact. Denying that is denying the right and nature of people to build knowledge and explore their world. It is natural to question more that which is more familiar to us. How much does anyone here know about the truth of Taoism or Confucianism for example? Stop being so precious.

EndeavourVoyage · 19/09/2018 17:50

BertrandRussell. At my kids school, albeit 18 years ago they were given the option to give assemblies and any RE lessons and prayer a miss. I asked my kids what they wanted to do as at home they were aware of our non religious beliefs, but both didn’t want to be different until they got to Y4 and then both asked to be excused. So that is what happened.

EndeavourVoyage · 19/09/2018 17:53

As an added comment I think they only asked to be excused as they got to read in the secretary’s office and also were able to answer the school phone and greet guests once in year 6, much better option!!

WrongOnTInternet · 19/09/2018 17:55

We also have a right to question the politics of the society we live in, and there is no doubt that the Church has always been a main instrument of legitimacy of politics here. It looks to me as if it is seeking to become so again. And no, many of us will not quietly site back and happily let that happen.

WrongOnTInternet · 19/09/2018 17:55

sit

BertrandRussell · 19/09/2018 18:04

Yes, you can ask to be excused assembly. But why should you have to?. Christians have 18 hours to pray with their children, why do they get the other 6 as well?

EndeavourVoyage · 19/09/2018 18:11

BertrandRussell.
You shouldn’t HAVE to but what else are you going yo do.
I have some friends who home schooled as there was too much religion in schools and some who home schooled as there wasn’t enough. The schools will never win or please everyone so we do what we feel is right for our own. I thought it was right to give my kids the choice from age 4.

TittyGolightly · 19/09/2018 18:14

The point is that state education should be secular, providing religious education but not religious instruction. There are faith schools for those that want that for their children. There’s nothing for those wanting a secular education for their children unless they are prepared to extract their children from their classmates multiple times a day/week. It’s fucking ridiculous.

MissEliza · 19/09/2018 18:29

So Op how do you explain what Christmas is to your child as an atheist? It is a religious festival after all. As an atheist, what do you tell your child? My dad is an atheist and my mum a churchgoer. Dad would be sure to tell us from an early age that he believed Christmas was a load of rubbish and the nativity was made up but mum insisted on celebrating. I have other family members who are atheists and they handled it in the same way.
My dh is Muslim and we raise the dcs as Muslim. We have a tree and exchange presents but we tell the dcs while Muslims believe Jesus is a prophet he is not the son of God and as such, Muslims don't believe in Christmas. We tell them we're joining in the celebrations for a bit of fun. We have told them this from an early age.

TittyGolightly · 19/09/2018 18:34

So Op how do you explain what Christmas is to your child as an atheist? It is a religious festival after all

DD is 7. Christmas only really became a discussion point once she started school (at 4). We don’t really do xmas. We follow the traditions that the Christians stole - not on 25th Dec. There’s nothing about the baby Jesus, no nativity. There is food, small gifts and time spent with friends and family (all pagan). We focus on kindness for the whole of December. We focus on the solstice on 21st - Nature has far more meaning than some made up sorry or a stolen festival.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 19/09/2018 18:38

If you don't want to believe in God and Jesus then don't
Its irrelevant of what anyone wants, you don't choose you beliefs, you either have one or you don't.

how do you explain what Christmas is to your child as an atheist?
Its a time of year to have a holiday from work/school, put up a tree/decorations, have parties, buy presents, eat lots of delicious food and all sorts of family traditions. It not a religious festival for me or anyone I know. It would really spoil Christmas day if you had to go and bore your pants off in a church

WrongOnTInternet · 19/09/2018 18:40

you don't choose you beliefs Err... some of us do actually... some people think about it.

Fwiw we focus on solstice.

Beesandfrogsandfleas · 19/09/2018 18:58

Dammit, that's what's wrong, I forgot to think about my beliefs!

BertrandRussell · 19/09/2018 19:00

Not being a Christian doesnmt mean that you are ignorant, or can't talk about Christianity. My children have always known why Xhristmas is a celebration, that some people regard it as a religious festival but that for others it's a social/cultural event where we enjoy the company of family and friends. I honestly don't know why some people seem to regard this as a "gotcha" question......

Banana8080 · 19/09/2018 19:02

I’m totally with you on this! It’s a fairy tale

Original poster
PoxAlert · 19/09/2018 19:02

"So Op how do you explain what Christmas is to your child as an atheist? It is a religious festival after all. As an atheist, what do you tell your child?"
@MissEliza

It's not a religious festival in our house as we're not religious.

It is all the things I just listed.....

Surely you can fathom that many many people adore the holiday season without thinking about god/Jesus? Just like I can fathom people do go to church etc that time of year.

Have you seen any Christmas films? How many of those mention any religion?

Elf. Home Alone. Miracle on 34th street. Muppets Christmas Carol. Love Actually. Not much Jesus happening there but plenty of Christmas. I guess you don't enjoy those though?

OP posts:
Walkingdeadfangirl · 19/09/2018 19:30

Err... some of us do actually... some people think about it.
So if you think about flying, could you chose to believe you can fly? There is an easy way to test if you can chose your beliefs. It involves a tall building Care to test your hypothesis of choice?

MissEliza · 19/09/2018 19:49

I think if you're going to get worked up about Christianity being taught to your child, you should explain to your child what you believe. Christmas is an example of it. As I said before I have plenty of family members who don't believe in God who would be frank with their dcs about Christmas.

MissEliza · 19/09/2018 19:51

And I'm saying that because I totally respected my dad, who was an atheist, for explaining his beliefs.

PoxAlert · 19/09/2018 19:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WrongOnTInternet · 19/09/2018 19:56

So if you think about flying, could you chose to believe you can fly? There is an easy way to test if you can chose your beliefs. It involves a tall building Care to test your hypothesis of choice?

Given that I prefer thinking and learning to faith as stated above, I am one who would likely to notice that I don't have wings and not jump off. That's a misreading of what I said. I was amused by your apparent suggestion that some people might have no choice but to believe total absurdities the poor dears. Which was possibly also a misreading of what you meant, but the language was entertaining.

Original poster
PoxAlert · 19/09/2018 19:56

@MissEliza I posted before I saw your second comment about your dad.

My DD understands some people believe he nativity story.

She also understands to DH and I it's just a story and nothing to do with Christmas for us.

OP posts:
blueviolets · 19/09/2018 20:20

A number of historical events pint to Jesus existing. Whether he was just a bloke who didn’t do much at all is another matter.

Teaching all different religions allows for greater education and reasoning around others who may not hold the same views. You have chosen for your dc to be atheists? Without any exposure to other religions they cannot have any chance of perhaps changing your choice later on.

Fwiw I went to a brainwashing catholic school, church every Sunday plus with the school in the week, prayers three times a day. Dsis went full on catholic boarding convent school with nuns an all and I wouldn’t have a clue the last time we had a clue about religion so I’m not sure your fears are entirely justified. Maybe I still believe in Santa though...

Teaching religions in school is simply presenting information including what’s a possible fact and what’s a belief, that way everyone can decide how you personally want to interpret it. Tbh I’d say you had more chance at a faith school of possible biased information. The fact it’s a secular school teaching most likely means briefly skimming over enforced curriculum in a Non secular country.

To be educated from all different angles is a wonderful thing. It would stop many angry people in this world !

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