To be a little disappointed that Jesus is being taught as fact in Y1?

[PoxAlert]

We're atheists, so therefore didn't consider any faith schools for our DD.

We want her to learn about all cultures and religions and be tolerant of them all. We have friends of many faiths and beliefs and just want to be kind and happy.

Of course I expect (and welcome) Christianity to be taught in school, but we just got a copy of this term's curriculum (DD just started Y1) and for a non-faith school it seems a bit much.

Or am I being unrealistic and the school and church will always be linked?

Some of the RE points are:

"To learn who Jesus was" "who were his friends" "what did he do?"

I guess I was expecting a "what do Christians believe?" "why do they celebrate Christmas" etc etc than what seems to be a fact based history lesson....

Either way I'm not going to kick up a fuss with school, it's not a big deal really, she's free to make her own decisions in life. Just surprised me a little.

Given that the core teachings of Christianity revolve largely around the 10 Commandments I can't see why people have such a problem with it. I mean, how bad is it that a religion encourages you to avoid murder, theft, adultery and lying, and asks you to treat others as you'd wish to be treated? If you don't want to believe in God and Jesus then don't, but don't pour scorn on a religion that encourages people just to be decent human beings.....

That's me assuming that there are other historical figures that most historians think were fact but some historians think were myth...I'd think they'd be just taught as fact in younger years and then in older years you'd have debate on whether x, y, z really happened/were they one person or an amalgamation of stories.
(I might be completely wrong, I'm going to go back and read the thread again to see if any history teachers have posted)

RangeRider - your argument still has no logic. Just because things were written in the bible that actually did happen, does not make anything else in the bible true. It's a bizarre twist of thinking that you would think that it does.

Also, the first 4 of your 10 commandments are about worshipping Yahweh, and nobody else. Couldn't he have stuck in a couple about not having slaves, and not raping children etc.?

"f you don't want to believe in God and Jesus then don't, but don't pour scorn on a religion that encourages people just to be decent human beings....."
Great-you'll do! Can you shown me where anyone has poured scorn, please?

Rangerider-what books are you talking about?

Surely you can opt out of religious teaching if you want to?

RangeRider - your argument still has no logic. Just because things were written in the bible that actually did happen, does not make anything else in the bible true. It's a bizarre twist of thinking that you would think that it does.
What?! I don't think you've actually bothered reading anything I've written. You carry on making up what you claim I've said. Life is too short.....

And next term it will be "who was Muhammed/Buddha/whoever?"

I'm sorry RangeRider, but you made the statement "There are plenty of works by classical authors that reference different events depicted in the Bible, and the existence of & attitudes towards Christianity." Can you then please tell me what that statement is supposed to mean in the context of this thread? Or was it just a meaningless statement of some kind?

This was the Bronze/Iron Age, remember, with an oral tradition.

It's very unlikely that people would be in a position to write an annotated biography, even if they had wanted to. We shouldn't be surprised at the lack of evidence.

Some Roman sources - Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus - mention Jesus in passing, but the mentions aren't robust enough to pass the test of 'evidence'.

It is diffcult to square the rapid growth of a Jesus movement beyond Jerusalem unless there is a possibility that the movement was grounded in an historical event that was significant to eyewitnesses.

OP don't worry, it might just have the opposite effect.

Dd had no view on God or Jesus until being taught about the resurrection in Reception. The she decided the Bible was a 'fiction book' because 'when you're dead, you're dead, you can't come back to life'.
I didn't contradict her.

I agree with you, PoxAlert, entirely. I'm a non-believer too. I don't believe in any God at all, and my family are all the same.

I don't agree with children being taught that God/Jesus/anything like that is fact.

Jesus was a real person, my understanding is that in this country many holidays are as a result of Christian faith, Christmas, Easter for example. Therefore it is no surprise that schools teach children about a man called Jesus.
Before they leave primary school, they will question the realistic notion of biblical claims about Jesus so don’t worry. Just tell your dc, this is a view, this is my view and let them decide for themselves.

Ime schools usually say 'Christians believe this ....', which is perfectly acceptable.
Just out of curiosity, Op, how do you handle Christmas?

don't pour scorn on a religion that encourages people just to be decent human beings
It’s great that Christianity tells people not to steal and kill etc. But it also says that homosexuals should be put to death and rape victims must marry their rapists. It’s hardly a guide for being a decent human being.

Jesus was a real person, my understanding is that in this country many holidays are as a result of Christian faith, Christmas, Easter for example.
The Christians stole those festivals from the pagans.

I hear what you say, OP but TBH I think religious assemblies are far more of a concern.

Spiky I think you are wrong about Christians. We have plenty of gay clergy and no-one would ever say a victim should marry their rapist.
I am guessing you are taking something from the Bible which was intended for the culture thousands of years ago and applying it to 2019. The Bible isn't the literal word of God. It is a collection of different books written by many people about their experiences.
Christians (the clue is in the name) follow the teaching of Jesus Christ - the New Testament. The Old Testament portrays how life/the culture at the time was. eg slavery was the norm at the time (it was modern Christians like William Wilberforce who managed to outlaw slavery). It is not to be taken literally. Many of the stories in the Bible are allegory eg Noah's Ark.
Jesus taught to love everyone. He mainly lived amongst those ostracised from society. No way would he agree with what you said about gays and rapists.

The Bible itself repeatedly claims to be the word of God. All of it was written for “the culture thousands of years ago”. You can’t just cherry pick the socially acceptable bits about “thou shalt not steal” while ignoring the bits about homosexuality and rape.

PurpleAndTurquoise

Unfortunately many people do take the word of the Bible literally. They use it as a backbone of a belief system which allows them to hate homosexuals and women too.

So nobody is prepared to point out the Christian bashing and scorn?

And rangerider hasn’t said what books she’s talking about?

I don't believe in any God at all

I think that there is a difference between introducing the historical character of Jesus to children and introducing doctrine.

Knowledge about who Jesus was, and why a Jew from the (now) Middle East is a key figure in civilisation is one thing. Parents would be understandably alarmed about the introduction of religious dogma into the same conversation.

@MissEliza

"Ime schools usually say 'Christians believe this ....', which is perfectly acceptable.
Just out of curiosity, Op, how do you handle Christmas?"

Yes that's perfectly acceptable and what I am hoping will happen. As that's how we talk at home. (Best friends are Irish Catholics so lots of opportunities for it too.)

Christmas here is tree, Santa, gingerbread houses, Christmas songs, gift giving/making/receiving. There are loads of activities over various weekends in our town (parade, light switch on, crafts etc)

We have a big decorating weekend at home. And another weekend at Center Parcs enjoying the fireworks and paint a tree decoration and she does a festive pony ride.

I always make sure to give plenty to the local food bank, RSPCA and women's refuge so DD sees the true (to me) spirit of Christmas and giving.

Last year was the first she heard the nativity. She loved it but at home it doesn't feature.

Christmas Eve we put out food for the reindeer and Santa, leave him a thank you note and a mince pie.

On Christmas Day Santa has been. She opens presents and then we either have family over or go to family for lunch. Plays with cousins, watch a film, eat too much.

What most of the country does I imagine.

Firstly, using the 'zeitgeist' idea that Jesus is a continuation of Egyptian mythology is a real real stretch. For example , the Virgin birth:
Horus’s mother is Isis. Isis was married to Osiris. We do not know for what length of time, but presumably the marriage was consummated. Whether it was or wasn’t doesn’t matter though. After Osiris is killed, Isis puts him back together again (he was hacked into 14 pieces) except for his penis which was tossed in a river or a lake. Iris fashions a substitute penis for him, humps him and here comes Horus. There is nothing virginal about that.

I have no trouble with the time periods of the New Testaments. It was within living memory of Jesus. I didn't live through the war but I could write about my Great Grandad who did. In fact, the contradictions make it more reliable as it shows that writers were not copying from each other. The books were also written for different audiences with different emphasis. The fact that early Christians who were witness to the resurrection died without renouncing it makes my belief stronger. It's one thing to die for our belief - another to die for a known lie. What would be the point?

In terms of Jesus being a 'Derren Brown' of 33AD Israel - What would be his motive? He didn't seek power or riches. He gained nothing from it but death.

In general, I think that you can't convince anyone either way. It comes down to belief. There's a leap of faith either way.

I think the 'Christian Bashing' claims come from people quick to disparage religious beliefs as 'sky fairies'. It's very patronising.
I'm Catholic and certainly don't believe in 'Sky Fairies'. When used, it makes me think that the person doesn't have the basic of Christian theology.

I'm sorry that some people have had a bad experience of Christianity. I think there is a lot of bad catechism as well (e.g Genesis is absolutely literal, hate sinners etc) especially in the past.