To think that in the current dire state of the NHS finances it's a no brainer that first priority for mastectomies goes to cancer patients?

[TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap]

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of whether the NHS or any doctor should ever be doing a mastectomy on a very young person with gender dysphoria, there is no question at all that a woman diagnosed with breast cancer needs treatment as top priority. (Or a man, in the very rare cases where a man gets breast cancer.)

The tweet I've attached is outrageously insensitive. The person concerned is using a mass blocker on Twitter so will never see most of the responses it's getting (mostly very negative indeed). Life in an echo chamber.

It's very worrying also to see the insistence that getting this surgery, that drug, has to happen right away or the person concerned will self-harm, maybe even try to commit suicide. This is very irresponsible. Ideas that like get hold from constant repetition.

YANBU.

Toby says they "won't die waiting" and to be honest that's probably the reason the NHS have made the decision they have - Toby probably won't die waiting, on the balance of probabilities.

Once you have some cancer diagnoses things happen fast. They have to, because of the speed the disease can take hold, spread and kill. Other cancers may not require - or even benefit such fast intervention - e.g. some prostate cancers.

These will be clinical decisions made on who's more likely to die first if they don't get the treatment.

He quotes this bullshit on the Facebook page for the event, if anyone wishes to comment.

'I don't have a mental health issue. I might kill myself though if I don't get what I want right now.'

Ok then do these people ever think about what they're saying?

"there are more of us than ever" . Oh really? Or are there just more people ready to jump on a passing bandwagon?

There was a picture posted up the other day of the workforce of Stonewall. Looking at it I can understand why some people think there are more transgendered people around, because if you work in an environment where most of the workforce appears to be in some form of transition then I suppose your view of the world as a whole is skewed a bit. Or indeed a lot.

It strikes me that the current transgender issue does appear to only be an issue in affluent white western societies with plenty of time to gaze reflectively at navels.

Buntyll - I agree

The tweeter doesn't say if their op has been postponed though or even if they have been put on a list.

It is very frustrating that they see delayed procedures as 'not their responsibility' while ignoring as a society that, yeah, we have a responsibility to recognize that others may have greater needs that need to be dealt with and to put our needs into perspective and take a step back at times - and that's before getting to the not uncommon abuse tactic of threatening self-harm and suicide.

It's infuriating how people like that aren't coming together with other groups affected by the shredding of services but instead going on about how 'they aren't responsible' like that somehow means they should get priority over the more time sensitive needs of cancer patients who are also not responsible for the cuts.

There are risks that binding - even with "safer" binding practices - that there can cause permanent damage which make it harder to have chest reconstruction surgery to the point that some surgeons may not do it and some consequences of binding are lethal. That is not the NHS nor any surgeon's fault however and some people are misled or in communities that praise the pain which makes me not want to entirely put fault with those individuals either but with the wider discussion and community that has turned binding into part of an identity rather than one of many coping mechanisms where the risks must be always be considered and balanced alongside the benefits.

Another frustration for me with this is that I know people who are working towards trans-related care and surgeries and the vast majority are not like this. I know people who travel hours across the country to see if they'll get hormones on prescription and are working to meet the requirements for GSR and know that it's years away and pay for therapists and other methods to cope while they do so. That people like those in the tweets have become the voice for the public and to those in authority over those who are quietly getting on with it and - just like many others - could use more face time with professionals and counseling services.

There is a great need for people to come together and for better information over internet shite that these sorts of complaints aren't helping, they're just dividing more. It's one thing to complain about issues with services but this current act of being more oppressed than others by this is just really off-putting and I hope others are helping to push back against these issues so better conversations and actions can happen.

Aornis Hades wrote: arran you can add to your list, autism diagnosis and appointments with CAMHS in general.

Yes! I was horrified recently when a poster on a thread about a MH referral mentioned that her suicidal husband was waiting an urgent referral.

They obtained an appointment several months in the future despite the dangerous behaviour etc. Such is the pressure that she had a letter that asked her to advise the MH service if her husband suicided in the interim because they could offer the appointment to someone else! (It wasn't phrased much more tactfully than that which tells me something about just how under siege those services must be.)

I think a substantial number of demographics have substantial waiting times.

This has left me speechless. I can't even begin to express my outrage.

The total cluelessness and arrogance of that Tweet indicates an immature individual s with poorly developed critical thinking and people skills, just as described in your insightful comment, CesiraAndEnrico.

Anyone who sees their elective mastectomies as genuinely more important than women's lives has lost all sense of proportion.

Transactivists are adamant that being transgender is not a mental illness of any sort. No way.

But if it's not a mental illness, and it certainly isn't a physical one, why is this NHS treating it at all? Makes absolutely no sense.

Toby's elective double mastectomy is cosmetic surgery. Toby should pay for private treatment. Problem solved.

PrawnofthePatriarchy wrote: Toby should pay for private treatment. Problem solved.

On a FB page about the planned demonstration Toby wrote that trans people are 4x more likely to be living in poverty. No nuance given as to why or which definition of poverty etc. But that is why private treatment is inaccessible to Toby and other trans people.

Trans people need healthcare. Counselling, hormones, voice therapy, facial feminisation surgery, transmasculine mastectomies (top), and whatever we might fancy doing below the waist that isn’t anyone’s business but our own.

As we’re four times more likely to live in poverty and private healthcare isn’t cheap, more people are seeking medical transition with the NHS than ever before.

www.facebook.com/events/259152721401084/

Complaining that trans healthcare has been cut - really? Has this person not been living on the same planet as the rest of us? EVERYONE's healthcare has been cut.

These people don't live in the real world. Like fuck should their wants trump cancer patients. Morons.

Trans patients were called last week and informed their long-awaited top surgery had been cancelled to let more cancer mastectomies happen. It’s not their responsibility.

Good.

And as for queuing around the block in protest, shouldn't they all be at work - you know, paying into the NHS system.

Of course breast cancer sould be top of the list as it is a serious if not even terminal if not treated.

And in limited budget woman and men sufferers of breast cancer should be at the top of the list above cosmetic surgery of both accident surviourers, people woth issues of the size of their breasts (too big too small) and that of trans people.

As in not all these procedures are breast cancer or trans but i still think the cancer suffers should come first.

Lots of people living in poverty, Arranfan. Doesn't mean the NHS should pay for their cosmetic surgery. And their own argument makes clear that it is cosmetic.

Would be interested to know where that statistic comes from. What with the dodgy claims about suicide, I'm disinclined to believe any transactivist figures.

Explored the FB page and Toby says there's news that half of all teenage transmen have attempted suicide.

Another WTF did Toby dig up that figure from?

Lots of people living in poverty, Arranfan. Doesn't mean the NHS should pay for their cosmetic surgery. And their own argument makes clear that it is cosmetic.

Absolutely.

And to self prioritise yourself over cancer patients is about the most fucking selfish, self indulgent heap of shite I’ve ever heard.

If someone has a mental health issue that is so severe, that the single only way to alleviate it is to cut off perfectly healthy bits of their body, then that in itself suggests to me that cutting off healthy body parts probably isn't the right way to go.

Most of these people have begging Patreon accounts (that are usually pretty empty) to try and fund their surgery don't they?

arran that's a shocking letter. Apart from the general point of 'do let us know if he kills himself' which is enough, it's the acknowledgement that there's a distinct possibility he will.

Oh God that FB page with the skeleton wrapped in the trans flag, FFS.

Also
Join me (trans man, he/him pronouns) and Maude (transgender unperson, they/them pronouns)

What the fuck is a 'transgender unperson'? That's a new one I haven't come across before.

Jeez. When I was waiting for my operation for cancerous lump removal and lymph node biopsy I was told our hospital is so busy that they were operating at weekends and even sending patients to a neighbouring trust.

He can fuck off.

Lots of people living in poverty, Arranfan. Doesn't mean the NHS should pay for their cosmetic surgery.

Just to clear this up - I am unpersuaded by the notion that Toby and similar groups are 4x more likely to be living in poverty (whatever the definition is there). I quoted it because I was taken aback by Toby's lack of insight into the living conditions, poverty etc. of huge swathes of the society in which Toby is living.

And, of course, I understand that people in poverty can't afford cosmetic surgery etc.

I was quoting what Toby said as Toby's explanation not because I endorse it as rational.

@PerryPerryThePlatypus

Agree.

It's honestly pathetic to threaten suicide to get your own way. My sister had a boyfriend like that. 🙄

It’s a toddler tantrum. Like when they want chocolate for breakfast and you say no later on you can have some, so they refuse any breakfast until they get their chocolate.

Or an abusive partner. Iron my shirt or else I’ll hit you.

Makes the person lose all respect or credibility as an adult, for a toddler it’s ok because their mind hasn’t grown enough to know better so clearly are not responsible enough to make such a decision.