Grandparents, Newborn and hygiene

[AperolSprizting]

My partner and I after a long battle have recently become parents after a long battle and have a 7 week old DC.

We’re having real trouble with my parents and their hygiene around them. First off before anyone asks yes I do have hygiene related OCD my parents know (started in a previous pg) but I think despite that how I feel is normal.

Basically I don’t want anyone holding my baby without washing their hands and having a sqoosh of sanitiser and I don’t want them touching babies hands or kissing them on the face, everything else fine. I know I’m not been too mad as we were given a sheet on the importance of it and handwashing technique in hospital.

At first we had a real battle on to get my DP to wash hands and also to take their shoes off when coming upstairs to the nursery (I have 5 month old cream carpet on my stairs and landing as well)! They are better at this abs not kissing his face but they will not stop touching baby’s hands I’m not too worried after they’ve washed them at mine but would rather they didn’t as DC puts them in his mouth a lot. Despite me asking them not to every time they see him they still do it!!! It’s starting to upset me which they can see and I’ve been having to make sure the scratch mitts are folded over in DC’s grows or that he has separate mitts on, I can then whip these off/back when they go. Any way this wknd they were desperate to see him but we had lots of plans so they came and met us whilst we were out shopping. And again they would not stop touching his hands!!! I mean FFS it’s bad enough when they’re at mine but out and about when you’re touching cars machines, ticket machines and door handles why would you then go and continually stroke a newborn’s hands, this happened several time’s when both mine and DP’s attention was diverted for a few seconds, plus we’d forgotten to put mitts on as didn’t think we’d be seeing them.

I’m pissed off because they continue to do something I’ve asked them not to and upset as now because of my OCD I can’t stop thinking about it and feeling super, super anxious so it’s ruined what should have been a nice weekend. I feel it’s also creating an atmosphere between me my DH and my DM and DF as we were reluctant to see them and this is becoming obvious. I’ve always had a good relationship with my parents and can’t understand when they are so obsessed with DC why they keep doing this.

What can I do or say because nothing so far has worked.

But they should wash their hands before touching such a young baby.

I never bothered to check, tbh. I don't remember even thinking about it.

I would seek help. Your immune system is trained in what to recognise as a threat by what it's exposed to. If normal, low-level things aren't encountered, that's when serious allergies can develop, as the immune system is sort of in a state of being 'held back', so instead it will go for anything it doesn't recognise (horrible paraphrase of an explanation by a prof of biochemistry).
Eat dirt, it's good for you!

OP you need to see your GP. I say this as someone with post natal anxiety but not hygiene related however I've seen how much medication has changed my life.

My 6 month old puts absolutely everything in his mouth, you can't control it. I sterilised teething toys at first then I realised he attempts to teeth on every toy/everything he can find and I can't sterilise everything so don't bother now. He also loves to shove people's hands in his mouth to teeth on, this includes both sets of grandparents and hilariously once my best friend (who doesn't have children) was sat in the back of my car with him and he grabbed and put her knuckles in his mouth.

I am NOT saying their is an absolute link here or that my friend 'caused this' as that isn't the case however my goddaughter had childhood cancer happily she's been in remission now for two years, and her Mum had quite severe post natal OCD. As a PP said there are some articles linking excessive cleanliness to children not developing an immune system and then childhood cancer. My friend had treatment but feels that her OCD went when her daughter was diagnosed as she realised nothing she had tried to do could protect her from being unwell.

Don't understand not being able to touch the babies hands. But I do understand the face kissing. Especially since so many people insist on kissing the baby on the lips.

The whole point that people are making about young children needing exposure to germs isn’t just an excuse for being a bit lax with the multi surface cleaner or lazy parenting.

It’s so so important- short of buying him a hazmat suit your ds will inevitably come into contact with germs or bacteria and his immune system needs to be capable of dealing with them.

I agree that you need to see your GP and quickly. As your child becomes more mobile this is going to be increasingly difficult for you and ultimately could lead to an emotionally damaging situation for your child. You’re child is going to be out in the street in their pushchair reaching out for things, they’re going to be in the park toddling about picking leaves up off the floor, going to nursery or playgroup with 30 other gammy, snotty, germ ridden children, they’re going to be throwing things they’re eating on the floor and picking them back up, swapping drool covered toys at playgroup. These are all normal healthy parts of childhood and you’re going to need to get a handle on this before that stage. Because if you’re helicoptering over a toddler trying to keep them sterile you will both end up miserable.

And just as a word of advice. Cream carpets aren’t suitable for houses with children, you’ll need to replace it sooner than you imagine.

I would see your GP about your level of anxiety op

My mil put her finger in my DS mouth when he was less than 24 hours old. It gave me the rage at the time.

Children and cream carpets. The children win, the carpet doesn’t stay cream.

Especially if they throw up Ribera type drinks as my daughter did at my cousin’s pristine house.

I can understand wanting to keep things clean and germ free but one day you’ll find your child kissing the cat. It’s not a battle to win or loose but a gradual acceptance.

By the third child you’ll be putting the cat in with the baby to keep both happy!

I don't think you're being OCD about this, just sensible.

When our DD was a baby about 90% visitors automatically washed their hands as soon as they entered, and avoided kissing her face. Most of our friends and family are in medical professions so clearly they don't think it's silly to observe basic hygiene around a small baby.

It takes minutes to take your shoes off and wash your hands.
What's that compared to the baby getting norovirus or a staph infection or herpes? Babies can die from illnesses that don't even make adults unwell.

Touching baby's hands I didn't mind, provided they'd washed theirs when they came in. But kissing the baby's hands is unecessary and a great way to transfer viruses, as babies suck their hands.

Never did the hand washing thing in our house. All my kids turned out very healthy and robust.

It would never occur to me to wash my hands before holding a newborn. I've never been asked to, and no one did when they came to see DD. Obviously I steer clear if I'm sick and I wash my hands after going to the loo etc but I don't make any effort beyond that.

I had a section and bf. In recovery I was given a wash where every inch of my body was cleaned - bar my breasts so DD could get all of the microbes etc that were on them as it's good for immunity.

OP, this is clearly your OCD manifesting itself and that sucks. Your parents should be supporting you, but I doubt they're being malicious. Chat to your GP.

Funnily I was only talking about this with a friend last night, one of her relatives has just had a baby (this past week) so I'm sure it's not you! She won't let anyone anywhere near the baby without hand washing and hand sanitiser, we had a bit of a giggle over how up tight she was being first baby and all that. She lost her shit because the baby's grandma kissed the baby on the cheek!

Now although I had a good giggle as it does sound mad I can remember back to when I'd just had my first child (2 years ago) and how I felt over this sort of thing. There was a few times just after she was born when I got very annoyed, her uncle kissed her on the lips at 2 days old!!!! Not even I had kissed her!!! He also held her after playing with his dog and put his hand in her mouth, I didn't say anything at the time but wish I had! A few other people put their fingers in her mouth too, having just come to the house I mean why? You wouldn't stick your hands in your own mouth would you so why a newborn? The constant touching of their hands also really made me mad.

So as much as I can see how it sounds ridiculous written down I can understand where you are coming from. If you've asked people not to kiss/touch your baby they should respect your wishes. (I'd maybe hold off the hand sanitiser though, I've read it's not good for babies skin). If people can't respect your wishes I'd reduce visits, if they ask why just say.

I echo what others have said. It's not really normal and you're going to make yourself ill with worry if you let it continue. Washing hands first is a fair point, but believe me in, in a few months, what that baby is doing and putting in their mouth will turn your stomach. Anything they see on the floor will go in their mouths. And that's fine, because it helps develop their immune system. I've got three little boys now who get grubby, have played in mud, probably eaten worms, crawled along sticky floors - they barely get a cold. Talk to your GP and HV. And also -
Congratulations on baby!

Your baby, your rules and your parents should respect this instead of assuming they know better or just not caring what you think.

I think you’re getting a lot of stick from other posters because of the way you’ve posted, mentioning OCD and being anxious and agitated.

Seven week old babies don’t have fully developed immune systems and you’re perfectly within reason to expect any visitors to wash their hands before touching your baby, in the same way that you’d expect people to wash their hands before eating, after using the toilet, handling a sick kid, etc. That’s nothing to do with OCD, that’s just common sense when handling a very young baby.

However a few months later once he/she is chewing on anything he can reach, and crawling, things will change and you’ll need to be more relaxed about the germ factor - you won’t be able to and shouldn’t try to stop it.

And probably get rid of the cream carpet by the time he/she is 2 or 3. 😬

I am sorry you are mentally ill. Babies need germs to be healthy which is one reason if you have a C section they smear your vaginal bacteria on the baby and why babies who don't play in the dirt are more likely to get asthma. That doesn't mean people can feed babies dirt etc and it is a good idea to wash your hands regularly but best not to go over the top with it all. I wouldn't have a white carpet in a house with children either. Perhaps put a dark covered rug over a lot of it.

I hope you hold your baby's hands and kiss his head.

I do understand where you are coming from and why you feel this way, but it is excessive. I'm not going to repeat everything everyone said above but just wanted to ask you - and you don't need to respond, but have a think about it - do you follow the rules you expect of the grandparents (eg don't touch the baby without washing first, don't touch his hands even with washing or kiss him)? If you do then I would suggest you have a chat with the HV about appropriate levels of hygiene, as that is damagingly excessive. If you don't - then why is it OK for you but not others? I do realise it is an OCD thing, but I think you need to realise it isn't rational. GRandparents kisses and hand holding is no more dangerous than yours (unless they are ill, obviously!)

You have seen your GP about this haven't you?

To be honest, hand sanitiser, anti-bacterial stuff everywhere and the VOCs from new carpet are likely to be far worse for your baby than the germs needed to build their immune system.

If a baby can survive a vagina it can survive a septugenarian kiss on the cheek

Everyone saying you don't need to wash hands before holding a baby is a bit extreme. Of course they need germs, but I think you still need to be sensible, while still following normal hygiene practices.

The thing that does sound OTT is the not touching the babies hands. That's normal and they should be exposed to SOME germs, just shouldn't go overboard with the sanitiser.

Kissing on the face is a personal thing on what the parents are comfortable with.

Unless your baby was very premature or has some sort of immunity illness the level of cleanliness is overkill. You cannot maintain this bubble around them for their whole life, echo what other people have suggested and think perhaps a chat with the gp/hv is in order xxx

I think people are forgetting the baby is only 7 weeks old! Not all 'germs are good for babies' some can make them seriously ill.

By 6 months their immune system is more developed. And then you naturally relax as they start crawling and chewing the furniture and licking all the germy toys at groups! Their immune systems are better equipped to deal with colds, sickness bugs etc.

You need to research immune systems, having a more accurate knowledge-base may reduce your anxiety. You also should talk to somebody in healthcare about the levels of distress you are experiencing. Your child is no longer a newborn and does need to slowly be introduced to fungal/bacterial situations. Also, having loving grandparents is an amazing thing - please don't push them away without talking calmly, after you've acquired accurate information from nhs, academic journals etc.

I made everyone wash their hands before touching my newborn; that was on the advice of the hospital. However once they’d scrubbed up I didn’t mind them holding his hand or kissing him.

It's impossible to not touch babies hands, especially as he gets older. He'll be grabbing and holding things and putting them in his mouth himself. I think you need to relax. Unless your baby has immune issues, there is no reason to think that normal germs will cause him problems.

What happens when your baby is rolling about on the floor, crawling, teething. All these mean they're putting things in their mouth.

A few months ago I read a scientific/medical report on the BBC that stated that children who were protected from germs were at most risk of childhood cancer as their immune systems had not been exposed to normal germs. If I remember correctly (!) it said that children from more affluent homes were more cosseted and at risk

This. It has also been shown that children brought up in homes with 2 or more pets have a significant reduction in auto immune conditions, excema and asthma. Babies need physical contact for secure bonding and development.

Everything is risk/benefit. You may be stopping exposure to germs in the short term, and possibly reducing the already small risk of contracting a dangerous pathogen.

But. Long term your baby needs exposing to as many germs as you can to build up the immune system. Also, hand sanitiser is alcohol and usually a chemical such as benzylkonium chloride.

Lastly, there is no amount of handwashing or sanitising that is 100% effective. I worked for many years in a cell biology lab- completely aseptic technique. I nearly had a post- natal breakdown when realised i couldn’t “sterilise” bottles to my usual work standard. What we call sterilisation at home is pretty much steam cleaning.