To insist only communicate with ex by email?

[Cantseefortrees]

I've namechanged for this as it could possibly be quite identifying.

Me and Ex split 12 years ago. He was emotionally and physically abusive (he denies this although he admits he hit me a couple of times from frustration). I have not dealt with my responses to him well - it's tied up with my father which I struggle to deal with - and any communication from ex still sends me into a tizz.

We ended up in court when we couldn't agree where DCs would live. The DCs witnessed arguing and conflict between us as court went on (and ex hitting me once) and started to refuse contact. They became very emotionally nervous and DC1 had a breakdown. The school referred him to SS. Ultimately long story short court ordered indirect contact only. This was supposed to be for a 12 month period to give everyone a break but ex didn't send anything. At the review hearing he didn't turn up. Nor did he turn up the the next hearing. Judge did final order for indirect contact only. That was 6 years ago. We have had no contact with him since. The DCs still see his family a couple of times a year (they live 4 hours away) when they come to visit family in this area.

Ex has now been in contact and has asked to see the DCs. I said he needed to write due to the length of time of absence and the fact that the DCs now 15, 13 and 12 don't want to see him. He has written every fortnight for the last 3 months. DCs won't read his letters. Their counsellor at school had recommended that I don't force them (even if I could) but keep reminding them the letters are there.

Ex is cross the DCs won't read his letters and now wants to speak to me "regularly" on the phone so they can see that him and me now get on.

The problem is I don't want too. He still triggers me and my responses and I have panic attacks at the thought of speaking to him. I have referred myself back to counselling to deal with this as I know Its not good.

However ex is now blaming me for the no contact between him and DCs. He is saying I am U for refusing to speak to him on the phone or meet up. My argument is it a better for my own health to only communicate with him by email. We shouldn't be discussing any of the issues in front of DCs anyway so it would only be me telling him briefly how they are as I'm not willing to try and force them to speak to him when he is on the phone anyway (which he also wants) so I don't see the benefit of phone calls when emails suffice. DCs already know I email him monthly with updates about them and pics so I am unsure why he is so fixated on the phone (other than I have said no)

I feel like IABU but I think it will cause havoc with my own mental health (I have anxiety and depression issues anyway atm) and so I just don't know what to do!

So I thought I'd put it to the MN jury and see just how U I am being :(

While I quite like this response v v v

"Thank you for your e-mail. I do not agree that telephone or face to face meetings would be beneficial and do not wish to discuss this further. Please continue to send any necessary correspondence to this e-mail address only and I will pass on any messages to the children in accordance with the order dated [XXX]."

suggested by AllyMcBeagle, I don't actually think you should respond to any more emails (or any other communications).

Instead I think you should have your solicitor write to him (once), to remind him of the 'indirect contact' arrangements that are already in place and which you can both continue to abide by, and also to tell him to stop harassing you.

If he continues to harass you after that, I think you should go to the police.

It doesn't make sense, it's too simplistic. They stopped seeing him because he was arguing with you and hit you.

This in spades!

You were ‘not getting on’ because he was violent and abusive. You’re allowed to not get on with people who are violent and abusive, it’s his fault that this situation has occurred.

I think I like maelstrop's suggestion best:

I owe you nothing and the DC don't want to see you.

Short but says it all.

I hate to hear how distressed you are by the re-emergence of this scum bag. It's like that bit in the horror film when the monster suddenly comes back to life.

He seems to be trying to make everything your fault. I imagine he used to do that when you were together? Please don't take the blame on board, not for the past and not now. You have worked so hard to rid yourself of his influence. Dont let him creep back into your life.

Stand firm, as your kids are doing by refusing to see the parent who has shown no interest in them for years. Don't feel bad about it. You have been more than resaonable towards him; far more than he deserves.

Ex ( not even dear ex, maybe even address him formally as Mr Xxx)
Thank you for your email of (insert date) which I have forwarded to my solicitor.
You may continue to enjoy the indirect contact with your children as laid down in the court order of (insert date).
Any contact that is not directly covered by that order must henceforth be directed to my solicitor (insert name)

(Sign as Ms Yyy)

Then block and do not contact him for any reason. Not even to update him on the children. He lost the right to any favours from you when he hit you. He lost any rights to consideration from the children when he went non contact for half their lives.
The court doesn’t give indirect contact orders without good reason. The reasons in the order were based on an ongoing relationship with the father. After 6 years of non contact and older children the court might be even less inclined to grant contact if it should come to that.

Whatever you d though, don’t attempt to link maintenance to contact. They are separate issues and should be kept as such. Children are not “pay per view”. He should pay maintenance for his children, he should be responsible for their welfare and living costs that comes with having a child.
He does not have an automatic right to contact. That is lost when a relationship breaks down especially when it breaks down through abuse and violence.

And if you need something to support your decision to deny contact (if you feel a bit wobbly and need some extenal strength) - just keep in mind that you are going against a court order if you allow him anything other than indirect contact!

letshope is spot on.

Yes, maybe if the kids saw you being best of friends they might get drawn in. Hahah. Or they might NOT, being as how they're teens with a lick of sense. They'd more likely see him being a dick to you, resent him more, and feel rotten that you were putting yourself through that.

Hes just shitting his knickers because very soon his kids will be adults and his pathetic stories trying to justify his shitness ‘their mother is stopping access!’ will be irrelevant, so he needs a new excuse so as not to lose face for whatever mugs are currently in his life. Set up an auto response to his gibberish so that any of his shite gets an automatic copy of the judges ruling sent to his email. State that any further harassment will be forwarded to the police and do not engage with the scum in any way whatsoever.

OP, please do not think for one tiny second that you are BU in any way.

He's decided you're getting on? He can get tae fuck. You sound terrified and browbeaten, not like someone who's rekindled a friendship. This man is a manipulative shitbag who is a danger to the happiness and wellbeing of you and your kids. Telling him not to contact you is not rude. He deserves a damn sight more than rudeness.

You should indeed handle his communications with the priority they deserve by ignoring them in perpetuity.

I agree with the suggestions above to get ex to contact you through a solicitor for anything other than letters to be passed onto the children are good as long as you don't have to pay (never worked in family law or legal aid so I don't know how the billing arrangements work for that kind of thing where there is ongoing contact).

If you would have to pay a solicitor, I would suggest getting him to contact you at your e-mail address in the first instance but if he keeps sending stuff which is not to be passed on to the children, send a further e-mail stating that you only intend to action e-mails which are to be passed on to the children in accordance with the court order and will not be responding to any other correspondence. If you want to respond to anything, keep your e-mails to him as boring as possible. Respond as if you are writing a very dull work e-mail and use business language - eg top and tail e-mails with phrases like "I write further to your e-mail dated [XXX]" and "It does not appear that further correspondence in relation to this matter would be constructive. Further to my e-mail dated [XXX], please send any further necessary correspondence to this e-mail address only. I will continue to pass on any communications to the children in accordance with the court order dated [XXX]."

Hopefully, he will eventually see that his attempts to engage you emotionally are having no effect, get bored and desist.

One last email.

"The children do not wish to see you/speak with you. If this changes I will email you. Do not contact me again."

Don't get drawn into anything, mark his emails straight to junk mail.

You owe him NOTHING. He owed THEM and he didn't come through so if/until THEY want something to do with him he is not your concern.

YANBU. Professionally I nearly always advocate for some type of contact between kids and parent - he had a chance to do that. HE chose not to. Judges don't order indirect contact only on a whim. Send him one last solicitor's letter making it very clear that e-mails will be passed on as per your orders but no other contact between you and him will be responded to. Take care xx

I read this and my response was omg .

You are far far too involved. He doesn’t need monthly updates. He isn’t in their lives.

You are assuming his new g friend isn’t been abused??? Based on what ?

All communication is an attempt to control you.

No wonder you can’t move on he isn’t out your life.

I used to send my abusive ex updates . Once I stopped it was far easier to do what I wanted without wondering what ex would think .

I also think you should re do the freedom program.

Surely writing is still direct contact so he never should of been doing that ever anyway?

Surely writing is still direct contact so he never should of been doing that ever anyway?

Not my area of law but I understand writing counts as indirect - see here for a good explanation www.emsleys.co.uk/blog/the-suitability-of-indirect-contact-orders

I've just reread the OP's first post and I would also suggest not telling the ex whether the children have read the letters or not. Don't engage further on that issue. I would just say that they have been passed on in accordance with the order and it is their choice whether to read them. OP, it's not your job to make them read the letters or do anything other than what you have been explicitly ordered to do by the court. Remember that you have the power now and he cannot make you do anything other than comply with the court order.

This reminds me a bit of my ex recently texting me something along the lines of my “having to stop adding to my nasty file about him just because my “advisers” have told me to do this”.

I wish that I had answered that I would stop thinking badly of him when his behaviour warrants it. And since then he has sent me other unpleasant texts, so he wants me to deconstruct some of the “armour” that I have around me, but to carry on being an arse .

Anyway, emails from him go to spam and I have currently blocked his phone number. Both because I was expecting unpleasant responses to issues about money, or me being assertive about stuff in any way. Assertive meaning not giving in to his verbal manipulations, and standing up for basic fairness. He still has the power to control me verbally (as I discovered when he insisted we talk on the phone recently - about money), but otherwise (unless money is involved), ignores me completely.

I was sending him texts about our dc sometimes, to ask his opinion about stuff that is hard to deal with on my own (they are currently living with me all the time due to his living arrangements at the moment - he also blames me for this but he does have choices), but he always ignores those completely. It is money that exercises him the most.

I have been going out every Saturday so that he can see the dc at my house for several hours, but now feel that I am not sire why I have to do this when he sends me unpleasant texts and is generally still peremptory and difficult about stuff. He currently seems to think that I have to store several large items of furniture of his for up to a year. Our financial order says that everything currently in my possession is now mine (since a certain date), but of course it would be very difficult to get rid of items that I don’t need / want and that I know he wants, as the repercussions from him would be awful, and he already considers himself the victim.

Sorry, this has turned into an essay about me!

Just to say that I agree with everyone else - you owe your ex nothing OP, and he certainly can’t force you to relate to him, to somehow show your children that you now “get on”. You don’t get on because he is a bastard, end of, and still behaving like one.

Sure not sire

This reminds me of my ex.
I am 100% in agreement with what AllyMcBeagle says and if you can afford it, it is worth getting a solicitor to correspond for you. You would be paying for your peace of mind and space to heal.

Legally, your ex can get school reports sent to him, and you need to update him on any significant medical issues. You do not need to be sending him monthly emails (my ex wanted weekly emails, I did it for about a year and it felt like I was still being controlled by him, because I would not have written of my own volition).

You are not responsible for his relationship with his children. You have done very, very well to get out of the marriage and build a life for yourself and bring up your children. He does not get to walk back in and unravel that. So you need to put a very big (metaphorical) wall up and block up all the gaps where he is getting in.

I also agree that a therapist trained in trauma counselling would be good. I have not had EMDR, but I have had a therapist who works specifically with trauma and PTSD for a year and it has done more than anything else. But even then, I know for my own mental health and well-being, ex does not get back in my life. I cannot stop him trying, but he does not get in.

You are not doing anything wrong.

For what it is worth, I also took advice from a child psychologist who said that maintaining boundaries was the best thing I could do for DC, who should also be allowed to maintain their own boundaries.

Maybe that is the most important thing - do not allow him to use you to erode DC boundaries. DC have boundaries there for a reason, they need them.

Just read that email what a fucking nasty twat he is!

You owe him nothing at all. Use one of the excellent replies above and block. His poor relationship with his children is a direct result of them witnessing his assault on you and then him fucking off for 6 years; it is nothing you have done.

Another one loving the Bullshit Translator

You have received a lot of good advice here OP.

When you wrote about why the relationship failed you seemed to put a lot of emphasis on your personality being passive and not being able to make decisions etc. This did not cause your Ex's behaviour. He is a controlling and abusive man and your response - closing down - is a common one. He made many choices, to control and to hit you which resulted in the courts deciding he should have no direct role in your children's lives. Just because he chose not to have any contact at all for so many years doesn't change the fact that he is not a suitable parent.

Your children have wisely made a choice. They don't want contact with him not just because they saw him hit you but because they know he is controlling and dangerous. You need to remember this and make sure you are not drawn in to further contact - he is just trying to manipulate and control you again - and this must be blocked for your sake and the kids sake. He has proven himself not to be a safe and suitable parent and children only deserve parents who are.

If he wants to demonstrate his care for the children he should - at a minimum - be making financial contributions. That's what he owes them. No one owes him anything.

I'd do what others have said - pass all contact to your solicitor. Send him school reports and be done with him. Otherwise he will continue to manipulate you - and seek to control you to reel you and the children back in. Stop that now - dead in its tracks. Protect yourself and the children. And ignore him. He is toxic.

Actually, OP, you don't even need to send the school reports. Get the school to send them directly and you don't need to even think about it.

Don't bother getting the school to send him anything. It is not your responsibility. He can contact the school himself and ask for them, if he is genuinely interested in his children. He could have done so years ago, but he chose not to.

Another one who thinks the bullshit translator is great.

It would be tempting to send the bullshit redacted version back, (asa big fuck u) but I think *Allymcbeagles” reply is a good one to send.

Yes, by ‘your ex can get school reports sent to him’, I mean he can call up the school and ask the school to send them, NOT that you need to send them.