WWYD - children's father wants to be paid officially for "babysitting"?

[silvercuckoo]

Asking on behalf of a friend (genuinely), and with her permission, I praised mumsnet collective wisdom to her . We discussed this topic yesterday in a small circle of friends after she asked us for advice, and opinions differed a lot.
She is divorced with three children (two in primary school, one pre-school). The children's father is an every second weekend dad with a relatively common story (arrrrrgh, she's such a bad/unstable mum, I'll petition for 100% custody. Gave her a lot of hard time, and then suddenly lost interest).
Her childcare arrangements have suddenly collapsed and there appeared to be a two-three week gap in the arrangements (a new nanny, about to start in late August, had a personal emergency and had to delay her start for three weeks).
The children's father agreed to help and cover these three weeks (he was not employed), collecting the children from school / nursery, bringing them to my friend's place and looking after them until she's home.
The night before his first day, he called her and explained that he expects to be paid a market nanny daily rate to compensate him for inconvenience. It was a massive surprise but she agreed as, realistically, there was no other option. She paid him around £400/week in cash.
Now, the third week of their agreement is coming to an end, and he had demanded formal payslips and evidence that all taxes /NI have been paid (as they would be for a nanny). It is an affordable amount for her (she used to pay, and will pay the same for a permanent nanny) the question is about the principle.
I think this is absolutely outrageous, and that under no circumstances should she entertain this. It is called parenting, not employment.
WWYD?

She was an absolute mug to pay in the first place.....in fact so much so I can't quite believe she did.

Who the fuck pays the father of their children to look after their children? Who the fuck demands to be paid to look after their own children?

Look him in the eye, tell him the arrangement was that he was self-employed and shop him to both the benefits office and the tax man. Arsehole.

What a horrid man.

What a god-awful prick. I seriously can't believe she agreed to that in the first place!

Please please tell her, from all of MN, she should tell him to fuck right off.

Absolute bollocks. A father does not babysit - he parents. A father does not get paid to look after his kids. He’s an arsehole and your friend was silly to pay him a penny. I appreciate it can be hard when you’re left in the lurch but that whole situation is ridiculous. I’m guessing he has parental responsibility (named on birth certificate).

Tell him to fuck off

I'd be tempted to send him the bill for all the remaining hours of the week/month/year when your friend has had sole charge of the children. Not forgetting the increased rate for night-time care.

Just posted in the lone parents section about my DD’s useless ‘Dad’ so I’ll stay under this NC. He once had her overnight and I had severe food poisoning. I asked him if he would have her for another night as I was still ill and he said ‘no I’ve got plans, my mum will if you give her some cash’. I just laughed at him and collected my DD. He sounds like an absolute CF and it’s quite disgusting how some men see raising their own children as babysitting and doing the mother a favour

In some senses this was blackmail and he is on a very dodgy wicket here if he pushes it.

She was an absolute mug to pay in the first place.....
I quite agree (and that's exactly what I told her). But this has already happened. She's a bit nervous as her employer started being unhappy about constant childcare issues she has.

Tell him to fuck off.

It’s the only sane reply.

I wouldn’t have paid him a penny. I’d have found someone else to have them

I’d also be stopping contact. He’d have to take me to court and I’d tell them what he had asked for. It might not change anything considering they allow violent men to have their kids, but he might not even bother doing it.

A man who requires payment for looking after his children have no business being in their lives. He’ll only let them down continually.

She should have maybe agreed to refund a proportion of whatever maintenance he pays

I think I would just laugh at him and tell him to organise his own tax.

Stick rigidly to agreed contact hours from now on. He’s a waste of space, minimise contact.

What an awful story. Really, really awful. Please encourage your friend to tell her ex that she won't be paying a penny more, and that she regards the money she gave him not as wages but as an extremely generous allowance for his expenses.

He would have had to provide her with a P45 if he wanted to be employed on paye, so if he hasn't or inquired about a contract she can reasonably assume it was casual work on a self employed basis.
As a pp said that makes it his responsibility to declare and she should tell HMRC if he doesn't.
He's also close to the most monumental prick I have ever heard of and deserves nothing for looking after his own children!

WTF. Your friend really must miss her ex, what a catch he sounds! Nanny to his own DC, yes I believe that officially makes him a Naddy. I believe the standard pay is 400 Disney Dollars per week, plus a pair of Mickey Mouse ears.

I think in the circumstances your friend should first of all check with HMRC what they would make of the situation. She must protect herself foremost, as it sounds like the ex is up to something and would think it wise to make sure she isn't exposing herself to possible repercussions.

I assume she will be invoicing him for the childcare she provides the rest of the time?

Glad to hear that the collective wisdom matches my own :)

Is there any written evidence of any of this?

It sounds awfully like she kindly decided to make a cash gift to her unemployed ex. It's up to him to sort out the tax on that. I wouldn't deviate for a second from that line.

He's obviously trying to wind her up with the PAYE nonsense. She could retaliate by emailing saying she needs him to repay that loan of £800 she made him.

I'd recommend she does the Freedom Programme because she is clearly far too controlled by him even now separated.

She’d be better off finding a reliable childminder, and telling the Ex she will no longer be paying expenses to him.

Then never ever involving him in extra childcare again, he uses it to get at her. Your poor friend it sounds tough.

Agree she shouldn't have paid him in the first place. However, he was clearly self employed so tax and NI are his problem, not hers.

Just make sure she gets everything in writing - e-mails or texts saying things like "I've looked up HMRC website and not sure how it works re tax/ NI etc." so that he responds in writing and there is proof that he believes he is not responsible for the care of his own child.

She may need this in future as he tries to use his child as a means of controlling her. A court needs to see the level of commitment he has to his own child.

Wtaf?
The only thing is can think of is that he is paying a truck tonne of maintenance for her to have them 100% of the time, and is just trying to get it back?
Otherwise this situation is utter nonsense.

I cannot believe she paid him a penny. Utterly flabbergasted. She definitely needs to do a concerned ‘oh dear, you’re self employed, we don’t have a contract of employment, you need to be careful because the inland revenue could easily hear about this’

That's nothing short of insane, and he's clearly the sort of controlling narcissistic arsehole who gets off on putting the wind up her.

She needs to calmly say "Oh, since you're their father I'd assumed it was more of a maintenance payment than anything else. If that's not the case, I assume you'll be phoning HMRC to register as self employed and complete a tax return. Or should I contact the benefits office, perhaps they can help?"