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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WWYD - children's father wants to be paid officially for "babysitting"?

96 replies

silvercuckoo · 13/09/2018 10:28

Asking on behalf of a friend (genuinely), and with her permission, I praised mumsnet collective wisdom to her Grin. We discussed this topic yesterday in a small circle of friends after she asked us for advice, and opinions differed a lot.
She is divorced with three children (two in primary school, one pre-school). The children's father is an every second weekend dad with a relatively common story (arrrrrgh, she's such a bad/unstable mum, I'll petition for 100% custody. Gave her a lot of hard time, and then suddenly lost interest).
Her childcare arrangements have suddenly collapsed and there appeared to be a two-three week gap in the arrangements (a new nanny, about to start in late August, had a personal emergency and had to delay her start for three weeks).
The children's father agreed to help and cover these three weeks (he was not employed), collecting the children from school / nursery, bringing them to my friend's place and looking after them until she's home.
The night before his first day, he called her and explained that he expects to be paid a market nanny daily rate to compensate him for inconvenience. It was a massive surprise but she agreed as, realistically, there was no other option. She paid him around £400/week in cash.
Now, the third week of their agreement is coming to an end, and he had demanded formal payslips and evidence that all taxes /NI have been paid (as they would be for a nanny). It is an affordable amount for her (she used to pay, and will pay the same for a permanent nanny) the question is about the principle.
I think this is absolutely outrageous, and that under no circumstances should she entertain this. It is called parenting, not employment.
WWYD?

OP posts:
billybagpuss · 13/09/2018 11:51

So the nanny is due to start next week? I do hope so, what an awful man.

I agree with this advise from pp

She needs to calmly say "Oh, since you're their father I'd assumed it was more of a maintenance payment than anything else. If that's not the case, I assume you'll be phoning HMRC to register as self employed and complete a tax return. Or should I contact the benefits office, perhaps they can help?"

LARLARLAND · 13/09/2018 11:53

This reply has been deleted

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ACatsNoHelpWithThat · 13/09/2018 11:53

Maintenance is based on overnights so since he wasn't looking after his DC overnight it's irrelevant in this case.

Definitely tell your friend not to pay him for the last week, I'd love to see how far he gets in the small claims court suing her for payment to do a few school runs for his own kids when he does absolutely nothing else!

bershetmelon · 13/09/2018 11:54

The night before his first day, he called her and explained that he expects to be paid a market nanny daily rate to compensate him for inconvenience.

His own children are an INCONVENIENCE! Tell her to flip him the bird report and him to the inland revenue. The lazy cunt

BlackrockMum · 13/09/2018 11:55

is this some of benefits issue, where you are based, if he's as you describe chronically unemployed, is he receiving benefits, is this some sort of scam he's trying to pull showing he was working and now he's unemployed again/ don't know if it works that way to get more or better benefits, but equally from your friends point of view if she believed he was receiving benefits while doing this she would of course have to report him if she was employing him and providing a payslip., I suspect he's just trying to cost her as much as possible he thinks she getting off paying tax 'cos he's not the nanny, but realistically she should just ignore him and if he raises it again just say no you were not employed by me, what would the kids think if I had to employ their father to look after them like any parent would, I compensated you as agreed for your inconvenience/ petrol etc it wasn't a wage, you're self employed do you own tax and paperwork.

WhitefriarsDillyDuck · 13/09/2018 11:57

She needs to tell him that he initiate the payment on a self employed basis and that he needs to ensure that he is registered with HMRC and pays what is due.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/09/2018 11:59

What an arsehole, babysit his kids, what if she died, they would be his responsiblity fully, does he expect to be paid for that! I would tell her, to tell him to feck off, they are his kids too. She is mad paying.

mumsastudent · 13/09/2018 12:00

ie self employed rate like a childminder -he has to declare tax etc to HMRC & IF HE IS UNEMPLOYED is he collecting unemployment or any benefit - she could drop him in it (threat returned) he is not a nanny he would have difficulty proving his contract & as a family member -gees he a creep -

mumsastudent · 13/09/2018 12:02

www.gingerbread.org.uk/information/contact-arrangements/ ring gingerbread & ask their advice

Knittedfairies · 13/09/2018 12:05

She should tell Mrs Doubtfire to get lost! Insane.

Thesnobbymiddleclassone · 13/09/2018 12:10

What a disgraceful father. Who does that?!

BlueBug45 · 13/09/2018 12:18

@ACatsNoHelpWithThat So it's a gift to help him look after their children properly.

It isn't employment as he hasn't had the right checks to look after children - neither of them will want to open that can off worms - , and it isn't maintenance as he isn't having them overnight.

If he wishes to declare the financial gift to HMRC it is up to him.

Mummyoflittledragon · 13/09/2018 12:25

Wow. This is one to file against him if ever he decides he wants to petition for custody. I tend to agree with the consensus that you tell him it is on a self employed basis and it’s for him to contact hmrc. Is she going to pay him for the final week? I kind of hope not but idk if you can pay someone to look after their own child. He had offered to do it for free then backtracked. I’d definitely be wanting to contact the unemployment office so his benefits are reduced.

GhostPerfume · 13/09/2018 12:28

She needs to get onto a nanny agency and sort that out asap

EricTheGuineaPig · 13/09/2018 12:35

How could opinion possibly have DIFFERED on this??! He is an absolute bastard. Nobody could argue otherwise surely? Maybe all use childminders who are also parents should start invoicing the other parent for childcare....

TheGateauIsInTheChateau · 13/09/2018 12:36

I would tell him to get to fuck.

And I’d tell the children when they’re older what an absolute cretin this man is!

Billben · 13/09/2018 12:41

We discussed this topic yesterday in a small circle of friends after she asked us for advice, and opinions differed a lot.

Every single one of the replies here is to tell him to fuck off. Who are these friends of yours who think otherwise?
Wish your friend had asked your advice (or MN’s advice for that matter) before she started paying him.

piscis · 13/09/2018 12:49

He wants to be paid as a nanny? He needs to be registered as self-employed then. Also, I believe that anyone "working" in childcare has to go through some basic training (first aid, food safety...), have DBS checks, and that's mandatory. If he is "working" in childcare without all that, it is a criminal offence. Also, as a "nanny" he should be self-employed, therefore paying taxes from his wages. I would report to HMRC. DISGUSTING. What a joke of a father...

piscis · 13/09/2018 12:50

We discussed this topic yesterday in a small circle of friends after she asked us for advice, and opinions differed a lot

Really???

Original poster
silvercuckoo · 13/09/2018 12:50

How could opinion possibly have DIFFERED on this
The minority opinion was along the lines of "you normally pay £XXX for the childcare anyway, he won't be able to look for a job while with the children so loses out, he also had to change his plans on a short notice, it was a win-win agreement and you backtrack now". To be fair, it was voiced by someone who is a non-resident parent themselves, so maybe does not understand that it is how things are in reality when the children live with you - you change your plans, reschedule, absorb financial losses etc.

OP posts:
Original poster
silvercuckoo · 13/09/2018 12:52

Also, I believe that anyone "working" in childcare has to go through some basic training (first aid, food safety...), have DBS checks, and that's mandatory
No, not for nannies, I am currently looking for one myself. For childminders and nursery workers you are right.

OP posts:
chewbacca83 · 13/09/2018 12:52

Is he a registered child minder that has all safety certificates and Ofsted inspection??! Nope then she could probably sue his lazy entitled arse haha. Unbelievable

GuessTheFruit · 13/09/2018 13:07

Fuck no. Just no.

Melamin · 13/09/2018 13:24

he won't be able to look for a job while with the children so loses out

Confused - isn't that the case for any unemployed parent?

bershetmelon · 13/09/2018 13:41

he won't be able to look for a job while with the children so loses out, he also had to change his plans on a short notice

From the sounds of what you've said op it doesn't sound like he spends much time looking for work seen as he's also change his plans? What plans were these? Sitting, not doing very much and avoiding any parental responsibility?

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