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Original poster

WWYD - children's father wants to be paid officially for "babysitting"?

96 replies

silvercuckoo · 13/09/2018 10:28

Asking on behalf of a friend (genuinely), and with her permission, I praised mumsnet collective wisdom to her Grin. We discussed this topic yesterday in a small circle of friends after she asked us for advice, and opinions differed a lot.
She is divorced with three children (two in primary school, one pre-school). The children's father is an every second weekend dad with a relatively common story (arrrrrgh, she's such a bad/unstable mum, I'll petition for 100% custody. Gave her a lot of hard time, and then suddenly lost interest).
Her childcare arrangements have suddenly collapsed and there appeared to be a two-three week gap in the arrangements (a new nanny, about to start in late August, had a personal emergency and had to delay her start for three weeks).
The children's father agreed to help and cover these three weeks (he was not employed), collecting the children from school / nursery, bringing them to my friend's place and looking after them until she's home.
The night before his first day, he called her and explained that he expects to be paid a market nanny daily rate to compensate him for inconvenience. It was a massive surprise but she agreed as, realistically, there was no other option. She paid him around £400/week in cash.
Now, the third week of their agreement is coming to an end, and he had demanded formal payslips and evidence that all taxes /NI have been paid (as they would be for a nanny). It is an affordable amount for her (she used to pay, and will pay the same for a permanent nanny) the question is about the principle.
I think this is absolutely outrageous, and that under no circumstances should she entertain this. It is called parenting, not employment.
WWYD?

OP posts:
nellieellie · 13/09/2018 11:15

Porkflute. Yes, perfect. She needs to invoice him for the childcare she provides.

Redgreencoverplant · 13/09/2018 11:15

He asked to be paid to care for his own children?! I really have heard it all now.

MaryDollNesbitt · 13/09/2018 11:16

I would sooner have set £1200 down in cash on his doorstep, set fire to it and then rung the doorbell than give the brass necked little cunt a fucking penny.

Your friend's a moron for ever agreeing. What the hell was she thinking?!

endofthelinefinally · 13/09/2018 11:17

The only thing she should do is get a signed receipt from him as proof that she paid him at his demand.
Then she can produce it as evidence when necessary.

RB68 · 13/09/2018 11:18

tell him to fuck off its called parenting and the "pay" was to defray costs given it was her time. ie if he had them like this all the time there would be child maintenance to pay.

Next time use an agency and stop him taking her for a ride - he is a parent as well so not sure why she even put her hand in her pocket

What a cocklodger he must have been

gottastopeatingchocolate · 13/09/2018 11:19

Oh dear!
What a shame that she felt she had to pay him - and a hefty sum for after school care too!
That said, that's done so no point crying over spilt milk.

I would be tempted to respond that she had no formal contract with him, and as such if he wants to see this money as anything other than a gift, he will need to provide her with invoices that clearly state he is responsible for his own tax and NI. She probably won't hear from him again.

IsaidMrDarcynotArsey · 13/09/2018 11:20

You cannot “ babysit” your own children. I am forever telling adult chaps this. They are your children you are meeting an absolute minimum parenting standard by looking after them. No parade, no brass band, no ticker tape & certainly no pay! Why would you not look after your children when there is an emerging situation that needs to be resolved. Would he be losing income or did he just think that because a payment is made to a nanny normally - the money would be due. Someone might like to tell him the new nanny isn’t biologically responsible for his kids so for them it’s an exchange of service for payment - for him it’s a moral obligation to ensure the welfare of his own progeny.

Original poster
silvercuckoo · 13/09/2018 11:20

Is there any written evidence of any of this?
This is what I asked too. There is a discussion of pick-up times via email, names of teachers and the code word for the school/ nursery, text exchange re the amount he wants, and that he is to accept deliveries / mail for her. I doubt this can be construed as a contract of employment. I am, however, neither in employment law nor in taxation. I told her not to pay anything for this week and just to ignore all threats - I cannot reasonably see how the HMRC could think this is bona fide employment.

OP posts:
LimboLuna · 13/09/2018 11:21

I have no idea on this but I’d worry she’s opening herself up to him saying his primary carer and she should pay maintenance and him having the kids?

arethereanyleftatall · 13/09/2018 11:23

Just in his defence, to plays devils advocate purely, a working parent pays the other maintenance, if they're looking after their dc and not working. He could argue that was what it was?

BlueEyedBengal · 13/09/2018 11:25

Really???? What father should even think of payment for minding his own children. She was a total fool to even pay one penny, had he ever payed her by the hour to mind his children? Tell him f o and if he wants proof of payment ask him as he's not working has he been claiming benefits and has he declared them? If that's the case threaten to report to s s and see how quick this c f backs down. This total dick has go away with draining money from his children make him pay with no mercyAngry

PorkFlute · 13/09/2018 11:26

I can see why you’re friend agreed to it though. She could have told him to get fucked but she’s was desperate and he was not willing to look after them for free. She wasn’t able to find alternative care at late notice so other childcare at the last minute so he took advantage basically.
If I was your friend I’d be getting emergency childcare options in place for the future.

AtSea1979 · 13/09/2018 11:29

I can kind of see why she’s ended up paying him. If he’s unemployed and had to put job seeking on hold for 3 weeks and has bills to pay etc and she can afford it then they’ve kind of done each other a favour. It’s totally wrong, being a father shouldn’t be a favour to the mother but until the law changes and men are made to take responsibility or face punishment then nothing changes and if he hadn’t had them she would have been stuck. However, he’s a complete prick and she should now tell him to fuck off. I’m sure a neighbour or one of these babysitting websites could have helped for that price.

FrayedHem · 13/09/2018 11:30

Just in his defence, to plays devils advocate purely, a working parent pays the other maintenance, if they're looking after their dc and not working. He could argue that was what it was?

But maintenance isn't employment, and he is asking for a payslip with Tax and NI paid.

CoraPirbright · 13/09/2018 11:33

Good grief I’ve read it all now! What sort of maintenance does this shit stain pay?

Original poster
silvercuckoo · 13/09/2018 11:35

I don't know about the maintenance. I guess not much, as he is, from what I know, chronically unemployed.

OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 13/09/2018 11:36

Babysitting means looking after other people's children - never your own; quite probably not even your grandkids, nieces, nephews either, although that's open to debate.

People using it to describe a dad being a dad (oddly, nobody ever does it for mums) only serves two purposes: to give the deadbeat dads a justification for their uselessness and to cruelly demean the good, loving dads for doing what just comes naturally.

But regardless of what you call it, is this man actually a grown-up and of a basic level of intelligence?

The children's father agreed to help

Is that in the same way as people 'agree to help' their employers by turning up for work regularly?

Guiltypleasures001 · 13/09/2018 11:37

I say she takes off and nukes him from orbit

It's the only way to be sure 😃

Redken24 · 13/09/2018 11:38

This is hilarious! Do you think my husband pays me for picking up our kid.
Absolutely weak.
This guy is a prize arse.
Please do all women near you a favour and publicly post it on your Facebook. What a piece of work.

AvoidingDM · 13/09/2018 11:38

If she has evidence of it, I'd be tempted to go legal. pay NI Including the Employers element and PAYE income tax and, reduce his last payment accordly.
This will also have a mild impact on his unemployment benefits.

Or she at least points that out to him that he either shuts up or pays the bill.

StealthPolarBear · 13/09/2018 11:39

Paying maintenance isn't to a parent that isn't employed!

"discussion of pick-up times via email, names of teachers and the code word for the school/ nursery"
I take it from this he never routinely picks up then. What a surprise.

Porridgeprincess · 13/09/2018 11:40

It would be interesting to see if legally one can "nanny" their own kids?

Has NI been paid? Omg, how do people actually end up this disgusting ??

AlmaGeddon · 13/09/2018 11:44

I don't think you can be employed to mind your own DCs. Or at least DGM can't get paid as far as I know, and they would need proof of qualifications for childcare and a criminal record checkso DF could be breaking the law if paid I think!

firehousedog1 · 13/09/2018 11:45

Oh jeez. This all sounds ever so petty. It sounds like your typical divorce sparring off. The only losers are the children.

Nicknamesalltaken · 13/09/2018 11:48

I hope she makes the benefits people aware. And the child maintenance should increase surely?

What an absolute cock.

But she was daft to agree to it. The correct response was to laugh in his face.

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