To think that an 8 hour work day is actually quite short?

[AllDayBreakfast]

I've been listening to various discussions on the radio about how we could be just as productive with a shorter work day.

As a hgv driver I work a minimum of around 10 hours a day and it's not at all unusual for this to sometimes become a 12 hour day if I get stuck somewhere waiting on POA (period of availability - basically being paid for waiiting).

When I was in sales a few years ago I'd also have to regularly spend evenings and sometimes weekends working on drafts of proposals, getting the pricing, formatting, wording sorted, etc (100+ page documents).

Whilst I'd love a 6 hour day, i can't help but feel that we're becoming a bit soft as a society. I don't really like the idea of the 60 hour week that many blue collar guys work, but trying to lessen a 37.5 hour week seems a bit lazy to me!

True blueskies - my current role is a lot more relaxed, thankfully! But having worked in maybe 10 different office jobs I would say at least half of them were pretty non-stop. Most were fairly low level though. In my experience, & opposite to what was previously suggested, the higher up the ladder you climb, the less intense the roles tend to be.

The original comment just rankled.

It depends on the job. If your job is continuous, heavy manual work or high responsibility or pressured mental work then, 8 hours is a long day. If you work with lots of time to rest, chat etc, then, it isn't.

Can’t stand these kind of attitudes that result in presenteeism, no one feeling safe about leaving before the boss etc. This country is becoming obsessed with longer and longer hours while productivity plummets. Much rather be like the Dutch and the Germans who work hard but smart. Worst of all are the bosses who are workaholics themselves but expect everyone else to be too.

I agree, and now with people able to work at home and while commuting there’s a culture of virtual presenteeism too.

I disagree that the higher up the ladder you climb, the less intense the roles tend to be. You'd only make this comment if you haven't worked at senior level! The higher the role, the greater the responsibility. It may not LOOK pressured, but believe me it usually is.

Lol at working long hours being a sign of "toughness". Anyone who wants to work less is "soft".

Check your machismo at the door, mate.

It's fewer hours, not less, and I don't even have a GCSE, some thick folk on here today, just saying.

It's not a race to the bottom, working more hours doesn't mean your tougher than anyone else..it can actually mean you are more gullible.

Working a 37.5 hour week is not lazy. It is quite normal and shows you are working for a responsible employer who values a work life balance , and knows increasing that will not increase productivity.

Overtime should be a choice, anything over a 40hr week should be a choice. Working over these hours probably means you have the opportunity and energy to do so. It should not be the standard people have to live up to.

So, as a 37.5 hr softy, I think YABU.

and when I worked in an office I always had time for a two hour gym session and a good amount of spare time afterwards.

This leapt out at me, OP -- presumably you didn't have young children who needed to be picked up, fed, have their homework supervised, bathed and put to bed, after which there will be some inevitable domestic chores, getting together lunchboxes and uniforms for the next day etc? All of which is work, just as much as salaried work.

I also think you are confusing different kinds of work. I'm an academic. I'm paid for teaching certain hours, and supervising research students etc, but it's not a matter of being physically present doing a certain task for 40 hours a week. You can't clock in and out when writing books, editing journal issues, peer reviewing, and putting together grant proposals and running a university department.

""Daily Mail, is that you? Preparing an article about how the society as a whole became so soft that people are looking to work shorter hours rather than work non-stop with a short break for sleep for the glory of the past and the future Empire?""

I can remember in the 80's the DM trying to brand the UK as lazy, when we were pushing for the Working hours and rights that the rest of Europe had.

It was an ongoing campaign. They also tried to use Men be willing to work longer hours as a reason to why Women shouldn't be employed in some jobs.

I think it depends on what you do. Obviously, for cardiac surgeons, who operate for 10 hours at a time or whatever, no, it's not realistic. I work in academia and we tend to flap around a lot longer than 8 hours a day. But that isn't always productive time. I end up doing a lot of home admin and then taking walks to get breaks between whatever cognitively intensive task I'm doing. If I had 6 solid hours a day just to focus on work, I'd probably be as if not more productive than I am in 8-10. Actually I've done this before and technically do work a contract with no set hours, so I could work 6 hour days every day. The reason I don't do it more is largely related to the pressure to appear productive. You look a bit lazy if you only show up for 6 hours, even if you are super productive (I still do it though as I don't care that much!). If it was more the norm, I think there would be less flapping around and more focused work so we could all get out of there at a normal time and have better work-life balance. We work extra anyway, so standardising a shorter day would probably be really good for everyone's mental health. I can only speak for my profession though. I don't know that it would work as well for everyone else.

I think in certain jobs you can be more productive if you need to be. I used to work 8.30 till 8.30 ish (so roughly a 12 hour day) in a city law firm. I used to fill my day. Now I work 9-5 and have to leave to collect the children from nursery. I reckon I do about the same amount of work in 7 hours (because I take an hour for lunch!) than I used to in 12. Some places have a culture of long hours and presenteeism which makes me really eye rolly. Such a waste of time!

Meh try doing a 13 hr shift on a short staffed ward as the only trained nurse(so alrhough your entitled to a 1 hr break ) you dont have a cat in hella chance od taking it .

This!

It's not really about the work though is it, it's about all of live around and about that.
If we all started work at 7:30am then who would take kids to school? It's healthier for them to walk, so who walks with them?
Everyone uses their cars too much, mostly cause it's fastest, not cause they're lazy.
People in general need more exercise, and to cook healthier food from scratch - again a time problem.
Society needs volunteers and voluntary organisations and community groups, not going to happen with everyone working 12hrs/day.
Children need collecting from school and homework supervised, ideally some conversation time with their parents for, you know, parenting and support, and even more ideally to sit down together to a family dinner. Again not going to happen if all the adults are at work till 7pm.
So yes, everybody should be aiming to work 30-40hrs max imo. or else not be surprised that society suffers.

YABU. I'm not productive 8 hours a day. By the time it gets to 4 pm my mind has drifted to what I'm doing that evening or what I'm having for dinner. I think I would actually be more productive if I had a 6 hour day than I am with my 8 hour day.

Lazy? Presenteeism?
Depends. I work 9-3, seems to work fine.

I work a part time 32hr week which would be perfect! Except I do another 15hrs in a second job which kind of ruins it

There does seem to be a weird British attitude that if you’re not slogging your guts out 80 hours a week you’re lazy, and somehow inferior to other people. That you’re only validated as a human being if you’re working as many hours as possible.
It’s all bullshit, frankly!

It's not a competition ...

bully for fucking you with your hardcore 10 hours. Come back to me when you're a junior dr. and not sitting on your arse all day eating mars bars all day

So true . I always think of hospital and medical staff , and paramedics

The stress
The antisocial hours
The hours
The literally life and death
The mental and physical workload

They win - hands up

I don't think I could do manual labour for eight hours a day. Doing a desk job, I have worked more than 8 hours but my concentration goes after then. People doing driving jobs for too long doesn't bear thinking about. Yes people used to do hard, manual work and have little concept of leisure time but we also used to drop dead in our 50s. It's not a race to the bottom.

In the words of the catchy song on an advert at the moment "I work eight hours, I sleep eight hours, that leaves eight hours for fun." By "fun", I mean travelling to and from work, housework, cooking meals, gardening, walking the dog, life admin.

21 hours a week is paid work, but I otherwise "work" a lot of the time when I'm not asleep.

There does seem to be a weird British attitude that if you’re not slogging your guts out 80 hours a week you’re lazy, and somehow inferior to other people. That you’re only validated as a human being if you’re working as many hours as possible.
It’s all bullshit, frankly!

Absolutely!
If someone thinks working long hours is a virtue and makes them more worthy than someone else, they are very deluded.

Jaxhog - Obviously more senior roles have more responsibility and ergo potentially more pressure in that regard. But in terms of pure hard work and slog I stand by my point. Certainly the higher I climb the more time is spent in meetings and talking things through, rather than in high speed processing or emailing or report writing or whatever.

I'm sure those working min wage, paid by the hour wouldn't want their hours cut.

Surely you go for the jobs that offer the hours you require and the pay you need.

I'm sure those working min wage, paid by the hour wouldn't want their hours cut

They can't afford to. That's why they often work too many hours. Minimum wage is ridiculously low.

Surely you go for the jobs that offer the hours you require and the pay you need

Are you that naive? You do realise that millions of people don't get to be that picky?