To think that an 8 hour work day is actually quite short?

[AllDayBreakfast]

I've been listening to various discussions on the radio about how we could be just as productive with a shorter work day.

As a hgv driver I work a minimum of around 10 hours a day and it's not at all unusual for this to sometimes become a 12 hour day if I get stuck somewhere waiting on POA (period of availability - basically being paid for waiiting).

When I was in sales a few years ago I'd also have to regularly spend evenings and sometimes weekends working on drafts of proposals, getting the pricing, formatting, wording sorted, etc (100+ page documents).

Whilst I'd love a 6 hour day, i can't help but feel that we're becoming a bit soft as a society. I don't really like the idea of the 60 hour week that many blue collar guys work, but trying to lessen a 37.5 hour week seems a bit lazy to me!

Well yes, as I said of course there is a disparity between industries. However in your OP you said that trying to reduce working hours, in a way that makes people equally as (or more) productive, is lazy. That makes no sense.

I don't work full time at the moment as I am also a student. I love my job, but I also love my family and friends and hobbies etc.

WTF would anyone want to work longer hours than they actually need to? An 8 hour day is not short. We would all benefit from more down time.

The trouble with a lot of research is that it's done by researchers IMO. Everybody has preconceptions, they can't help it, and researchers preconceptions often revolve around quality rather than quantity. So really concentrating on your research for one hour produces better quality results than working for two hours but having little chats, staring out of the window a bit and making a few cups of coffee. But plenty of jobs can't be compacted time wise, like retail work, where you have to be there for opening hours, or delivery work or healthcare.

I'm not getting my point across very well.

Well, your point was that working a shorter day would make people lazy and society isn't as tough now. You got your point across just fine.

Can’t stand these kind of attitudes that result in presenteeism, no one feeling safe about leaving before the boss etc. This country is becoming obsessed with longer and longer hours while productivity plummets. Much rather be like the Dutch and the Germans who work hard but smart. Worst of all are the bosses who are workaholics themselves but expect everyone else to be too.

I'm just reflecting on the fact that whilst half the nation are talking about reducing their hours from 8 to 6, then other half would be happy to reduce theirs from 10-12 to 8

My dh works 40-45 hrs a week not including his commute which is an hour a day. His boss is looking at changing the hours so that each person works a shorter day as he has seen how by the end off the week his staff are not as productive. Sometimes my dh works 10 days in a row. It may seem like a few hours but I think it's going to make all the difference to his happiness and to our family life. He will be home by half 5 some days instead of 7pm. He will still be expected to reach the same targets just in less time.

I work 12 hour days as a nurse, but I don't work as many days as people who work 9-5 so I actually find it gives me more work life balance as although I don't get to really see the kids on work days, I'm off most of the week. Working 12 hours 5 days a week is not beneficial to anyone though.

Nothing to do with being tough - it's recognised now that it's not healthy to work long hours without proper breaks, etc. More people were in physically demanding jobs in the past - physical tiredness and mental tiredness are different and affect people differently. Also, workplaces in the past had break times where people stepped away from what they were doing - you didn't drink a coffee at your desk - and lunch breaks were sacrosanct and far more social than they are in many places now. Also, people didn't commute the distances they do now and certainly not by car in the numbers they do now. Longer commutes, driving to work, not having proper break times all contribute to stress.

An 8 hour day is a 40 hour week, not 37.5. Unless you’re including lunch breaks in one figure but not the other.

Personally I think there’s nothing soft about a work-life balance. I most cases it’s necessary if you have kids, elderly parents, wish to keep fit and active, eat healthily instead of for convenience... and generally do things for yourself. I see no point in working all hours and then paying others to also work all hours to do the things you should be doing for yourself.

I'm just reflecting on the fact that whilst half the nation are talking about reducing their hours from 8 to 6, then other half would be happy to reduce theirs from 10-12 to 8

Well yes. But does the fact that some people want to reduce their hours from 10 to 8 mean that others should have to work 8 hours instead of 6 (with two of them hours leading to no increase in productivity), just because to do otherwise would be ‘lazy’?

Well, your point was that working a shorter day would make people lazy and society isn't as tough now. You got your point across just fine.

I'm pretty sure my exact words were "a shorter working day is a good thing."

'Meh try doing a 13 hr shift on a short staffed ward as the only trained nurse(so alrhough your entitled to a 1 hr break ) you dont have a cat in hella chance od taking it .'

Oh yes of course, lest anyone forget that nurses have The Hardest Job Ever 🙄

If you like your work time more than you do your non work time then good for you but you're quite lucky. Where you looking after a family and doing a share of domestic stuff while doing these hours?

I really like my job and actually enjoybgoing to work. But I love my non working life so I know where I'd rather spend my time.

Tbh you seem to be harking back to the good old days when work were done down t' pit. I was just talking to my grandad at the weekend about him being a miner. There's nothing to glorify about this type of work and working hours. It was hard and dirty and also low paid. This applies to many other types of work done in long shifts. I worked in a kitchen for 12 hours at a time as a teenager. I was knackered when I got home and I was 16/17! I wouldn't want to do that and try to manage a home and family.

What is soft about working 8 hours then going home to do shopping, preparing meals, supervising children with homework and bedtimes and cleaning?
Many people work to live not live to work.
Choosing to work long hours when you have a relationship and children is selfish if you don't need to. You have to have a balance.

If you have to work over eight hours to survive then there's an issue with the rate of pay.

🙄

We haven’t “gotten soft” as a society - we are a society suffering from the fact that most families need two working parents to pay the bills, single parents are in dire straits, and many people are suffering the ill effects of working long hours.

so you are saying we should work longer hours despite productivity declining, being dangerous on the job (in some cases), neglect our family and friends, have no time for other activities (volunteering, studying, music, whatever!), and little time to look after our health so that we do not become "soft"? yeah, sure... I'm down for that!

I am joking, I see what you mean about people who have it relatively easy moaning too much, but on the other hand, I think this ethics of hard work has gone too far and is used to convince people who have really quite unreasonable work conditions (and that's most people in my books!) not to complain lest they look "soft".

Why does life need to be an endurance test? Why should people be made to work longer and longer hours? Your OP is bizarre! I do get sick of hearing people say how we are soft as a society. There is nothing wrong with wanting a good life, a job you enjoy where you are treated with respect, where the wage you earn allows you to live, not survive, that allows you to work enough hours to earn but not so many that you cannot enjoy your family, friends and hobbies. I have a far better standard of living than my grandparents, who lived through the second world war. That's not a bad thing, OP, it's progress!

Well yes. But does the fact that some people want to reduce their hours from 10 to 8 mean that others should have to work 8 hours instead of 6 (with two of them hours leading to no increase in productivity), just because to do otherwise would be ‘lazy’?

Not at all. I'm up for shortening the work week as far as is possible.

I'm just commenting on those who complain that a 37.5 hr week is a hardship in the face of others who work almost double that. It's like my friend who moans that her £45k salary 'isn't enough'.

I'm not talking about unnecessarily lengthening the week to appear 'tough', I'm talking about people not recognising their privilege.

8 hours rather than can reduce productivity in more mentally tasking roles. Obviously if one is working in a shop or sonething it doesn't make a difference. The reality us though that most people with mentally tasking jobs work outside their contracted hours without overtime so it won't make any difference. Your average city solicitor is contracted for 8 hours but will work between 10 and 14 hours. That doesn't take into account commuting times. The real problem is preseneeism not an 8 hour work day (which ius a myth anyway). Employers should encourage telecommuting where practical (not least ouf all because it will save everyone money and will be better for the environment) and discourage employees from sitting around in the office for the sake if looking like they work harder than everyone else.

I only work a half day on a Friday and I get more done then I do on a full 9 hour day

Can’t stand these kind of attitudes that result in presenteeism, no one feeling safe about leaving before the boss etc. This country is becoming obsessed with longer and longer hours while productivity plummets

Exactly. Too many bosses who measure how many hours you are in the office rather than outputs. Do I get my work done? Yes. Does the business receive any complaints that deadlines are not met? No. So why would I need to work longer hours - in fact, not "work" but sit in the office on MN? I might as well be off doing something constructive.

However, being a driver is a bit different - if you get stuck in traffic for example you will still have to deliver your goods for the day.

I feel for people who work on trains when they are late - they must not be able to plan anything.

I work 7.25hts.Most of that in the last six months have involved me getting punched , hit , sworev at and being called a fucking cunt!
I don't want any longer than that to be fair!

I'd be far more productive in 6 hours than I would in 8.

I am joking, I see what you mean about people who have it relatively easy moaning too much

This is kind of what I meant. Maybe I should've titled the thread "Are we a nation of whingers?" (but was a bit conflicted as I'm kinda having my own whinge!)