To wonder why you would say 'No' to student doctors/nurses helping/observing your care?

[Whatsnextforus4]

DD has been quite poorly in hospital with bronchiolitis. She's on the mend now and We can go home today.
Since we've been in hospital the care has been fantastic were so so appreciative of the nhs.
We've been asked alot if junior doctors and student nurses can help and observe our daughters care and obviously have said yes. 4 doctors checked her over for discharge today and while it took longer it was 4 sets of ears and eyes ensuring all was ok all overseen by a qualified doctor.
DH got talking to a nurse and she said alot of people do refuse to let them in.
AIBU to wonder why anyone would decline as those are our future doctors and nurses and they will never learn if they can't see and do ALL of the illnesses and problems that they will have to deal with. You can only learn so much from a book.

@Mascarponeandwine when I was told my grandpa would be dead within hours (everyone else had gone home to change /eat and I'd taken over by myself), the consultant had who I can only imagine we're several students with him. It was quite distressing as he wasn't very sympathetic. I can only imagine to him he was just a very old (almost 97) man who'd outlived his body. The doctor that announced his time of death etc was much more sympathetic and I was very grateful to her. She spoke to him kindly and was gentle even though it was clear he was dead.

I had bad cervical pain many years ago and had to have a camera up the vaj so that they could have a look round. Dr asked me if I minded if some medical students observed - I didn't mind at all because they've got to learn somehow, but I did feel a bit exposed with my feet up I now the stirrups and them all congregated round the business end (there were seven of them)! She took them on a guided tour of my insides and it was quite interesting really because I could see the screen, they were asking questions and we all got quite chatty.....if someone had provided tea and biscuits it would have been a pleasant afternoon

'In the stirrups' not 'I now the stirrups'

I don't like having student observers because I teach in a university and 99% of the students are from that university. Given the course I teach there's a good chance that I will come into contact with them at some point and I'd rather they didn't know about my medical history.

Is that a 'good enough' reason for some of you?

I had a real issue with 4th year medical observing student in with consultant. We weren't asked if it was okay every time I said anything she eye rolled and huffed - she irritated DH in the end which is usually hard to do – she even hissed shut up at me when I pointed out consultant was wrong about last child’s age - child being older was supposed to suport his point.

My parents insist mum medical care was compromised during birth with me - room full of students Mum's induced labour slowed - student had to see a birth and be off somewhere next thing they know drips adjusted nothing said to them and bam full on contractions no breaks and sudden birth with lots of tearing.

A student fucked up a simple provide on DN when a toddler – minor thing and no lasting damage but momentary pain was enough to upset DN enough that ever visit for months including the operation was done with DN hysterical.

On balance I'm still more likely to say yes than no - but if I'm already overwhelmed, stuck for time or getting a bad vibe then I will say no.

I've been a victim of sexual assault and can get quite tearful and anxious in situations where I feel vulnerable or exposed. That might sometimes mean I decline additional unnecessary people in the room. Is that okay with you OP?

Medical students tend to want to talk to the 'interesting' patients. And the ones with complex backgrounds. Their parents have already told their story a million times so don't want to do it again. We get inundated with medical students at times as there just aren't enough suitable people to speak to. Never had an issue with student nurses as they are one person helping with my workload.

Just to add I was happy to have a student midwife present when I had my youngest child. It was her first birth and she was very kind and helpful. But I would absolutely have said no to a male student or a hoard of medical students traipsing in.

"All those who are more selfish need to remember what enabled them to be treated so well."

Draws a big gasp.... What the?!?? That is way below the belt and way out of order. Who do you think you are, to be so narrow-minded and judgemental? How dare you! I sincerely am glad such a callous, insensitive and disrespectful person like you is not a Dr. You have no idea why a person would not want another person in. Perhaps that woman was RAPED or had some type of TRAUMA and felt her GP was one she could trust and felt safe with, and did not feel, at that stage, that she could cope with a stranger there?

I have always said yes to a student Dr being in the room with me. Always! I have never said no. However, my next appt I will decline if there is a student Dr, for the first time ever. I will have something extremely personal and sensitive to discuss with him and that is my right to speak only to my GP about it.

I am shocked at the narrow-minded ignorance from you and I suspect you will be called out on it by others, too.

why should some and not others be expected to let them in.

NO ONE is expected to let them in. They should be asked. Because people's bodies are not pieces of meat for others to train on without their consent. If you don't want them there then you have the right to say no because you have autonomy over your own body.

The only thing I say no to is taking blood or putting a cannula in, and that's because I need whoever on shift is best at getting blood (and I find nurses are often better than doctors as they do it more) as I have crap veins and limited places they can go, and if you don't get it first time then you can't get it from that place at all

I've had them in a lot of appointments, doing ultrasounds and ecgs on me etc and I have no problems with it, they have to learn and generally they just take a little bit longer or may need a bit of direction from the senior dr. It's not like you are only seen by them and they can get things totally wrong and the mistake not picked up on

I've had them in gynae appointments, ultrasounding my heart (so basically all over my chest and no real cover) etc and I just think 🤷 they could be the one doing it in a year anyway so what's the difference?

Like others, I'm fine with one or two being there but I wouldn't want them doing any stitching up or putting canulas in or taking blood, the latter two because I frequently have trained hcps struggling to do it and whilst I'm fine with one attempt a second usually results in me starting to get queasy.

I’ve had student MWs at check ups, but would certainly never have any during labour - when the stakes are higher and I am in actual agony I don’t need anymore people gawping at my vagina and telling me to “really push” than strictly necessary.

I always say yes to student doctors/midwives etc. DD was delivered by a student midwife.

I once had to go to Bristol dental hospital for an abcess in my tooth - the dentist prodded round a bit, then called in a consultant who has a look and muttered and called in another colleague. After a while they asked if they could show some students i said yes - I didn't expect a while class of them to come in and peer into my mouth one by one, it turned into a mini lesson about my xrays and potential ways of dealing with it. The tiny consulting space was filled with people ... Eventually they drilled into my tooth and all witnessed litres of pus come gushing out.

i think less of people for refusing.

i get the canula thing - i think students should be forced to do it on each other until they're competent.

and they should limit so you never have more than one.

but with those two caveats, i think it shouldn't be a matter of personal choice. the reality is that these students could, in six months, be your doctor. and if you haven't let them into the room because it's "too sensitive" or "too difficult" or "they're a man", then you're an partially culpable for incidents where "the junior doctor had never seen one of these before". your future care depends on them learning under supervision.

i can just about get my head around the "too many people" if someone has extreme anxiety, but otherwise no-body complaints about how many doctors attend them when they're in resus, so maybe we're all just a bit precious when we're not quite ill enough?

The point of this thread seems to be an attempt to shame women who have said no to students on behalf of themselves or their chidlren,

By callling them stupid / selfish.

I call GF.

When I was expecting dd1 I was asked to take part in a study for the hospital. I'd go in drink some disgusting glucose drink and they'd do some tests, measure bump etc. When I was being examined the midwife asked if some student doctors could observe? I said no problem. They had a qualified doctor leading them. She didn't acknowledge me and just started speaking about my body as if I wasn't there. How I was a typical example of why gestational diabetes occurs. I was stunned.The midwife told me to lie down so she could do a Doppler scan and told the doctor I didn't have GD and according to my results unlikely to develop it. The doctor didn't respond. The midwife asked one of the students to try and do the Doppler scan. He tried but couldn't find the heart beat. The doctor stepped forward and took the handheld thingy and tried herself. I was getting visibly upset. She was pressing hard and shoving me. She couldn't find the heart beat. The midwife said to her to let her do it. (She looked worried too). The doctor then grabbed my tummy skin, shook it and said angrily "..its because of all this!" The midwife shot her such a look. She then took the Doppler and found the heartbeat immediately. I burst into tears and she ordered everyone out of the room and hugged me. When she left the room she gave that horror of a human being what for.

I'm another who says yes quite happily. I once had 8 young men and women being given the tour of my cervix. Like EstuaryBird I was interested, so they turned the screen so I could see and join in the Q+A.

I was a little taken aback when SIL said she had been mortally offended when she was asked the same question and that I had been taken for a mug!

I can understand why some would choose to say no, but to think it equated to being taken for a mug???

Oh, and I usually get given a trainee phlebotomist... my veins are 'deep burrowing wrigglers' and it can be impossible to get blood out. But again, I am calm, happy to hold the canular while they prep yet another phial. It usually bothers them far more than me... even when they end up trying both elbows and wrists and threaten me with the paeds specialist - she takes blood from your feet

I refused when I was in labour, I had been there 2 days already, baby was back to back, I had been examined by every man and his wife, I was sore, tired, just burnt out and was in no mood to feel like a science project too to be honest.

Exactly, Nothing!

I'm fine with it for my own care, but it's a no for my dcs' care as they are both autistic and medical appointments for them are highly stressful as it is. I'm not risking damaging the tenuous rapport they already have with the two GPs at our surgery that they can cope with by having a stranger in the appointment.

I allowed a student to give me a smear - never again!!!!! It was bloody agony....no one is getting to practice on me again!

I will always refuse if I'm ambushed - ask me before a junior/student shows up or I'll ask them to leave.

I have a blanket 'no students' rule in place when I end up in ICU; I'm hard enough to deal with for experienced staff, a student could get hurt badly (side effects of medications make me disoriented and combative).

I wish I’d declined a student sonographer.
I went to the early pregnancy unit with a suspected miscarriage.
First appointment he jiggled the internal ‘stick’ around. Then he got a bit stuck as to what he was looking for. He was being helped but my god did I wish he knew what he was doing.
I then came back a week later and he got so confused as to what he was doing he kept pushing this stick around inside me and kept going while the supervising nurse said no to the left TO THE LEFT. so he just shoved it over without seeming to realise I might actually be feeling it all. It was horrendously uncomfortable and the outcome was pregnancy not viable (10 weeks and had previously had a heartbeat), not something I cared to share with this junior. I was in so much shock at what I’d just gone through I couldn’t even cry until I got home and I felt like they were looking at me waiting for me to react to the outcome.
I didn’t say anything about my treatment as I couldn’t do anything but cry when I thought about it. I now decline all students. I hope others don’t as I understand it’s important but I will not risk going through substandard care again.

Well, you'd have to be astonishingly lacking in empathy and reasoning skills not to be able to fathom why people sometimes refuse students.