To wonder why you would say 'No' to student doctors/nurses helping/observing your care?

[Whatsnextforus4]

DD has been quite poorly in hospital with bronchiolitis. She's on the mend now and We can go home today.
Since we've been in hospital the care has been fantastic were so so appreciative of the nhs.
We've been asked alot if junior doctors and student nurses can help and observe our daughters care and obviously have said yes. 4 doctors checked her over for discharge today and while it took longer it was 4 sets of ears and eyes ensuring all was ok all overseen by a qualified doctor.
DH got talking to a nurse and she said alot of people do refuse to let them in.
AIBU to wonder why anyone would decline as those are our future doctors and nurses and they will never learn if they can't see and do ALL of the illnesses and problems that they will have to deal with. You can only learn so much from a book.

Particularly when it comes to childbirth you get a lot of women saying things like ‘I couldn’t have give a damn who was watching I just wanted to get the baby out’ but that’s really not the case for everybody. I felt very self-conscious and very aware of how exposed I was during labour and was really uncomfortable when additional staff had to come in. I get that some women don’t care but I think that it’s important to remember that a lot of women really do mind.

I had to be investigated for delayed puberty as a teenager. There were three student doctors observing while I was asked all manner of excruciatingly embarrassing questions. I was completely traumatised. Thirty years later I will generally not allow students to sit in for consultations relating to the same condition (which requires ongoing treatment).

I was happy with a student to watch at my second birth, it was the first time she had watched one so I was on my best behaviour LOL (I didn’t swear or give her the death grip on her hand) my first birth I may have said no if they had asked too early on.

It wouldn’t bother me now unless it was an embarrassing problem

@nemorocksmyworld women signed a form consenting to you doing an internal examination as practice while they were under GA? I find it really hard to imagine someone agreeing to something like that happening while they were not conscious.

I was asked if a student nurse could take my blood. Took a few attempts, she was so nervous bless her, but she did it and admitted I was one of the first to let her.

I had two students midwives there for my sons birth. My MW asked if they could check me etc during labour and of course I said yes, they were such lovely girls and were both present during delivery with my MW talking me / them through what was happening. Both of them thanked me for allowing them to be a part of it was very sweet.

I tend to see them in the same light I’d see my doctor / trained nurses so don’t get embarrassed as much I guess? I’m sure they'll see a lot when they’re trained and every scenario you present will help their training.

Am I the only one who really doesn't like the idea of internal examinations being done on unconscious women even if they have consented beforehand? I'm quite able to assert myself now but when I was younger I would have struggled to say no and felt put on the spot at being asked. In fact just the thought of approaching a patient who is waiting for an operation, possibly scared and feeling vulnerable, and asking to do this makes me feel a bit sick. I wonder if men are asked if they can be given prostate exams as practice whilst under anaesthetic. I doubt it.

I said yes when I was having a gyne procedure once. About 4 young men trooped in and all proceeded to peer up my vadge. Would definitely say no if that situation arose again 😂

Island I’m a teacher and had to go for a siegmoidoscopy once (camera up the bum into stomach) and the nurse assisting with the procedure was a parent of a child in my class 😩

That’s an interesting point... I wonder if men under GA were used for prostate exam practice without their prior knowledge or consent.

I did let the student doctor be present for labour though as no one else had said yes for 2 days!

A lot of the things I’ve been to hospital or the GP for have been quite intimate/personal things and I just wouldnt feel comfortable with having a student there in those circumstances.

If however it’s to observe something simple, then I wouldn’t mind. But they wouldn’t be allowed to stick any needles in me (I have a major needle phobia and a qualified Dr or Nurse is petrifying enough for me let alone someone who’s learning).

Two occasions at my GP they’ve had junior doctors sitting in. And neither time was I actually asked if they could sit in, I was just ‘told’ they’d be observing. The first time it was a female JD and it was an issue with my shoulder so had no problem with that. But the second time it was to do with my nether regions and it was a male JD and I felt super uncomfortable even discussing it in front of him. (I wouldn’t book an appointment with a male Dr for that kind of thing because I’d feel uncomfortable, so was pretty peeved to have a male JD foisted on me)

I can understand the rationale for some people about certain things.

But on the whole I think that they should be allowed in - how do you expect doctors to learn if nobody gives them an opportunity?

When I had my daughter I had a fourth degree tear and I had a few trainee doctors/nurses come and observe because of the complications involved. As much as I don’t like having an audience look at my hoo ha...it’s in the best interest of everyone

While i get some circumstances you wouldnt ive always said yes, the accompanying medical professional always looked taken back when i said i was happy for them to have a go. Great hands on experience for the student

When I was induced with DS I had a a student attempt to insert a hormone IV drip into my hand and fail 3 times before the consultant took over and did it herself. Very painful and my hand was left as a badly bruised pin cushion.

So I'd be a bit dubious about a student sticking needles in me in the future, but I would be happy for them to observe.

In theory yes and I have let groups of students observe various things before but I have drawn a line at watching letting them watch a gyne exam.

There was also one time I had a breast exam and wondered why there was 4 people in total in the room. Turns out 2 were male students but I didn’t realise until after. No one asked my permission and I wouldn’t have give it had I have known. I thought 4 people in the room was very hard to deal with & my privacy felt invaded.

Sarahrellyboo1987 "But on the whole I think that they should be allowed in - how do you expect doctors to learn if nobody gives them an opportunity?"

You let them in to see your medical situation, by all means, but don't expect others to automatically say yes. How will they learn, multiple ways, some will be real patients, some other things. It is not the job of the patient to let medical staff practice on them.

I wonder if men are asked if they can be given prostate exams as practice whilst under anaesthetic. I doubt it.

I'd be willing to wager my last penny that nothing like that ever happened. Women's bodies are seen as fair game. Cannot believe women are still being asked, when they're already vulnerable, to consent to being prodded by Heaven knows how many people whilst she's completely unconscious. Seems like when it comes to women's genitals it's okay to push boundaries and consent .

I also remember being on a (closed but very big) Facebook group and one member had been a student midwife but had quite halfway through, she was sharing stories of certain things she’d witnessed during women’s labours/births that she’d found humourous, that tbh I found quite inappropriate and disrespectful to the women who had allowed her to be part of their experience. I’d hate for my birthing experiences to be turned into some kind of dinner party anecdote. Obviously I know this could happen with qualified HCPs as well but it did put me off offering to have extra unnecessary staff members in the room.

When I was in labour with my first a student midwife walked in just as I started pushing. He went straight to the sink and as he was washing his hands he told me he was going to
deliver my baby - I said NO! I had built a raport with my midwife and wanted her to deliver my baby. I wouldn’t have minded him staying and watching but he walked out when I refused! That very morning and the day before I was a guinea
for the student drs exams so was happy to be examined by students.

I had a college friend who went on placement with an HV to see a new mum who had no control at all over what she called 'her wind'. After some minutes my friend dissolved into hysterical laughter. Personally, I would have regretted allowing her to be present.

And of course she told it as a funny story for a very long time afterward.

Still don't understand why they don't practice routine things like exams and bloods on one another. Bet they'd see things differently if they were the ones being asked to be experimented on.

I always say yes; sometimes, when I've had a million appointments in a shortish time I've been tempted to say no as I've just had enough, but even when I had to have o/p checks 2 or 3 times a week for 18m I still said yes.

I've had gps get excited about my pupil since I was 15, calling in any students - even when not actually being their supervisor, or when the student's there to actually learn about, say, the heart - simply because they can see the back of my eye really easily, and may not get another opportunity for a while!

I suppose I'm just used to being a subject of medical fascination

It’s a pain but I’ve never refused. As it turns out one of those students who examined me years ago is now a senior and brilliant GP ( and my GP :D )

I have always agreed. My daughter was delivered by a student midwife over 30 years ago. I spent several weeks going in and out of hospital for surgery when I broke my ankle in 2016 and had student nurses taking bp etc and in theatre. As others have said, they have to learn.