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Original poster

To not appreciate Serena using sexism in her arguments against umpire

518 replies

user1471517900 · 09/09/2018 10:07

Sorry if there is a thread, I did scan four pages to check.

Serena gets coached (which her coach admits) but claims she didn't see it. Then smashes a racquet in separate fit of temper. Then tells the umpire she can't be a cheat because she's a mother(!), he will never referee a match again with her, and he's a thief.

The punishments all seem fine to me and I really felt for Osaka having to apologise in her winners speech. Serena should be saying sorry today IMO.

OP posts:
BubblesBuddy · 09/09/2018 12:00

I think there are problems with hugely partisan American audiences and Serena knew this. Golf is similar in the Ryder Cup. It was calculated to upset her oponent and get the crowd baying for blood. I am so glad it did not work. It was intimidation.

I rather suspect this may not have happened at Wimbeldon where the crowds are far more appreciative of all players. The crowd would not have booed the opposing player at Wimbledon if Murray had gone on a rant. They would have expected better behaviour and probably would have slow-handclapped in order to get things moving again. We all like our favourites to win, but could you imagine Roger Federer doing this?

Serena spoilt the achievement of her opponent and I am fed up with hearing that coaching is rife in Grand Slams, everyone does it, so it should be ignored by the umpires. "Two wrongs don't make a right" as the saying goes. I think they will soon permit coaching from the stands so it will change. However, it is a huge shame that being a woman was dragged into it in the way it was. It is not standing up for being a woman or being a mother. It was intimidation against another woman who was much younger and likely to be intimidated. The person who took something from Serena , was her opponent who played the better tennis. Serena is not used to losing and blaming it on sexism and suggesting that her rant is standing up for women is ridiculous. I was mortified that she thinks she is standing up for me.

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 12:01

Would a man also be able to call an umpire a liar and a thief and get away with it?
Not sure what you mean - did you mean "get away with it" in the court of public opinion?

SW hasn't got away with it, she got her third code violation of the match, leading to a docked game. I honestly think that had a male player said similar, they too would not have got away with it. So, no, neither sex would get away with it.

nolongersurprised · 09/09/2018 12:03

placemats commented that “many men in tennis get away with so much more” mrs but I think that if Federer had told an umpire that he was a thief that he’d also have penalised.

placemats · 09/09/2018 12:04

Jimmy Connors got a way with saying an awful lot worse to umpires.

TanteRose · 09/09/2018 12:08

doedoe thank you for sharing that article - fascinating!

I think the umpire was sexist and racist and I don’t blame Serena for getting frustrated - but she should have reigned it in after the second warning.

Naomi Osaka is a force to be reckoned with - I am looking forward to seeing her go far in the future Smile

Go Japan Grin

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 12:09

nolongersurprised ah, gotcha. Yes, though I think if it were Roger Federer calling an umpire a liar and a thief, everyone would start looking for the imminent end of days, or the ravens leaving the Tower of London, or something equally apocalyptic.

I do think sexism is an institutional problem, but I slightly feel that phrases like "a man would never have been penalised for xyz" when they clearly have been, and would be, just rob the argument of all its essential credibility. (That said, I think we all do it.)

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 12:12

I rather suspect this may not have happened at Wimbeldon where the crowds are far more appreciative of all players.
I completely agree that Flushing Meadows is very, very different to Wimbledon - it's much more raucous - but let's not sanctify Wimbledon crows too much. They are pretty partisan when it's a Brit.

The crowd would not have booed the opposing player at Wimbledon if Murray had gone on a rant.
It's impossible to prove this, but the general opinion among the commentators on the night was that the crowd were booing Carlos Ramos, not Osaka, and my guess is that if you're there, and can see the direction of people's gaze while they're booing, you would know if it were the umpire or the player. You don't boo someone while not looking at them.

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 12:13

Wimbledon crowds, not crows!

placemats · 09/09/2018 12:13

Let's not forget, Federer, who is the same age as Williams, has two sets of twins.

This is why I like Andy Murray.

Aspenfrost · 09/09/2018 12:13

Williams was in full shrill mode, however. Using the fact of her being a mother was pretty silly to say the least and pretty laughable.Grin

Aspenfrost · 09/09/2018 12:16

Blimey, you can’t even call someone a “liar” in the House of Commons and get away with it.

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 12:17

Blimey, you can’t even call someone a “liar” in the House of Commons and get away with it.

Weirdly, when you think how benign an insult that is by comparison with what some of them deserve to be called.

Inkanta · 09/09/2018 12:27

I was also not impressed at her use of sexism. It was not that at all. She just lost her temper.

nolongersurprised · 09/09/2018 12:29

tante how was the umpire racist and sexist against Serena yet somehow not so for his opponent - also a woman and a POC?

TurquoiseDress · 09/09/2018 12:29

Serena said that "I have a daughter..." while exchanging with the umpire during the match.

She did not say "I am a mother..."

I did feel for her and how it all then escalated was crazy!

It's easy to say she should have kept her cool, let it go etc

But she's a professional tennis player, wants to win every match- she felt like the coaching warning was not warranted and so she reacted.

Was she just supposed to ignore it and meekly carry on??

Understand where she was coming from with respect to her thinking she was being more harshly treated than she would have been if she was a man.

Sadly this all did distract from the fact that Osaka played brilliantly and made history!

The crowd booing was appalling- I believe this was directed at the umpire/tournament referee etc and not at Naomi Osaka!

Inkanta · 09/09/2018 12:32

I'm pleased Osaka was not put off by what to me looked like gamesmanship on Serena's part.

ChelleDawg2020 · 09/09/2018 12:32

YANBU. Both the Williams sisters are appalling characters, but Serena is the worse of the pair.

She has the arrogance that all elite sportspeople have; however, most of them are too concerned with their public image to act like a spoilt brat to the extent that Williams does.

It's not sexist, or racist, or any other form of discrimination, for a sportsperson who breaks the rules to be punished according to those rules.

If you don't like the rules, play a different game!

TimeForDinnerDinnerDinner · 09/09/2018 12:33

*Branleuse

Good for her.

I notice that any black woman that stands up for herself is often said to have gone mad or lost the plot etc*

Yes. This with bells on.

Inkanta · 09/09/2018 12:39

Serena lost because her opponent was in a better shape. Not because she was black or a woman or because the referee is a white man or because she has a daughter.

Bunbunbunny · 09/09/2018 12:39

Sue Barker has stated Serena has a point

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45463752

@branleuse 100%

TheIcon · 09/09/2018 12:45

She's got form for this. She had a right to at a line judge once when the judge correctly foot faulted her. Was despicable behaviour.

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 12:55

It's not sexist, or racist, or any other form of discrimination, for a sportsperson who breaks the rules to be punished according to those rules.

It may be if those rules are inconsistently applied and if you can prove a bias towards penalising women and particularly black women (even if you allow for the inevitable inconsistency that, as a PP correctly said, is always a problem across all kinds of sport).

itsaboojum · 09/09/2018 12:56

It's not a sexism issue. It's just like soccer: millionaire prima donnas (of all genders) who feel entitled to abuse officials for their own personal advantage. Claims of sexism are an insult to genuine victims, but she does so love to cultivate the "I’m a strong woman" thing.

She wouldn’t last five minutes in other sports that have refused to cave in to the cult of celebrity. You only have to shake your head at an ICC cricket umpire's decision and it will cost you 15% of your match fee and a demerit point (which means you’re a third of your way to a suspension.)

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 12:58

Serena lost because her opponent was in a better shape. Not because she was black or a woman or because the referee is a white man or because she has a daughter.
Absolutely true. I think the two arguments (why did she lose, and is there racism / sexism at play) are being muddled up all over the place. She lost to the better player. There is both racism and sexism in sport. Both are true.

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