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Original poster

To not appreciate Serena using sexism in her arguments against umpire

518 replies

user1471517900 · 09/09/2018 10:07

Sorry if there is a thread, I did scan four pages to check.

Serena gets coached (which her coach admits) but claims she didn't see it. Then smashes a racquet in separate fit of temper. Then tells the umpire she can't be a cheat because she's a mother(!), he will never referee a match again with her, and he's a thief.

The punishments all seem fine to me and I really felt for Osaka having to apologise in her winners speech. Serena should be saying sorry today IMO.

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 09/09/2018 11:08

To be very clear... no elite (or less than elite) male player has had that run of penalties for those, or any other infringements, let alone in a GS final.

SW acted in a most 'unfeminine' manner, a manner that has seen both sisters stay at the top of a highly physical sport for a long time. She was very heavily penalised in that match, forAnd here, on a forum used mainly by women, mostly mothers, we have posters haranguing her for not being 'feminine' enough, she has even been accused of being a long term cheat, based on no evidence, just because the poster, presumably, doesn't like gobby women.

Shame on many of you!

PollyFlinderz · 09/09/2018 11:08

How can that not be out and out sexism?

Well, it could very well be that she's not recovered from the birth enough to be as fit as she has to be even though she is still superfit.

There's absolutely nothing sexist about it given that men can't have babies and there is no comparison to make.

Mrskeats · 09/09/2018 11:08

Also look at the behaviour is Kyrios. Don’t ever remember him having a game deducted.

PlatypusPie · 09/09/2018 11:09

Entitled bully is right. Stop trying to make it ‘ooh, empowered woman standing up for herself’ , when it is tantrumming - that is the only thing she is teaching her daughter.

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 11:11

Also look at the behaviour is Kyrios. Don’t ever remember him having a game deducted.

I think the game deduction was for three code violations in one match. He's definitely had code violations before.

BadLad · 09/09/2018 11:11

McEnroe used to shout and throw his racket about.

Yes, he was a despicable piece of shit, and he has a long list of fines and sanctions, so I'm not sure what your point is.

This same umpire gave Djokovic a code violation for racquet abuse at Wimbledon this year, I read.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 09/09/2018 11:11

There's absolutely nothing sexist about it given that men can't have babies and there is no comparison to make

Men can, and do, get injured though in sport and then struggle to return to their previous level. Whilst there isn't a specific biological comparison with a woman having a child, there are many, many cases of men never reaching the top level of their sport again after an injury.

ushuaiamonamour · 09/09/2018 11:12

James Blake tweeted this: "I will admit I have said worse and not gotten penalized. . . ' I hate to pick at anything the gorgeous Mr Blake says but Ramos has always been known as a stickler and I'm sure there have been times he's issued penalties when other umpires wouldn't have. I think it was he who was booed long & hard for giving Nadal a penalty for yet again taking so long to, back when other umpires hadn't the temerity to do so.

glintandglide · 09/09/2018 11:12

“Today 11:08 PollyFlinderz

How can that not be out and out sexism?

Well, it could very well be that she's not recovered from the birth enough to be as fit as she has to be even though she is still superfit.

There's absolutely nothing sexist about it given that men can't have babies and there is no comparison to make.”

I completely get your point but don’t think this is straight forward. The point of maternity legislation is to ensure women don’t suffer for having children. Yes, physically she will suffer and there is no denying that. But where is the positive discrimination to minimise the impact of that? There isn’t any. She’s told to suck it up. This isn’t what we generally do to new mothers returning to work

BewareOfDragons · 09/09/2018 11:13

I'm with Serena on this. There are definitely different standards applied to male tennis players having a strop on court, chucking their rackets about, getting coached ... they seem to get away with it. Female players even have their outfits 'judged' on appropriateness, whereas male players don't.

NotBadConsidering · 09/09/2018 11:13

*And also it's relevant because- well, name anyone else who's won a grand slam during pregnancy and returned to the top level after?

She is alone in this.*

Kim Clijsters didn’t win while pregnant but certainly won after giving birth. She won the US Open, and beat Serena in the semi after Serena was given a point deduction for abusing a line judge...

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 11:13

Looked this up out of interest: "On the ATP tour and WTA tours, a rule violation such as voicing an obscenity or hitting a ball into the stands (not during the point). The first violation results in a warning; the second, a point penalty; the third, a game penalty; and the fourth, forfeiting the match."

ushuaiamonamour · 09/09/2018 11:14

Whoops, 'for giving Nadal a penalty for yet again taking so long so serve'. Probably anyone who follows tennis could have guessed what the missing verb was, though.

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 11:14

glintandglide That's a really interesting direction for the argument. I don't know if I want to see positive discrimination to favour mothers competing against non-mothers in sport. Wow!

TheVanguardSix · 09/09/2018 11:15

When John McEnroe did it he got offered sponsorships.

That guy threw proper tantrums. At least Serena was more articulate. I always half-expected McEnroe to chuck his He-Man and Skeletor dolls at the chair umpire. He was like a whiny brat in full meltdown mode on the floor of the supermarket toy aisle.

BagelGoesWalking · 09/09/2018 11:16

" don't for a moment think that a male player wouldn't be penalised for calling the umpire a thief and a liar. He might get away with saying 'are you blind?', as might a woman, but calling the umpire thief & liar, is much worse. A male player wouldn't have been penalised a full game--unless he like Williams had already been penalised twice before in the match and the third violation were as grave as this one. "

^ ^ This
I feel desperately sorry for Osaka, on what should have been the greatest night of her career so far.

Rebecca36 · 09/09/2018 11:16

I felt disappointed with Serena's outburst but, quite honestly, she came back too soon. After all she went through having her baby and resultant health problems which still persist, two years off would have been more sensible - in my opinion.

It's a real shame seeing a great champion like her lose her rag and say ridiculous things but surely we can forgive her.

PollyFlinderz · 09/09/2018 11:17

Men can, and do, get injured though in sport and then struggle to return to their previous level. Whilst there isn't a specific biological comparison with a woman having a child, there are many, many cases of men never reaching the top level of their sport again after an injury

Yes. And perhaps Serena's pregnancy has taken its toll on her. She was superfit going into her pregnancy but she then had a difficult pregnancy and labour that I believe meant her life was in danger at one stage. You'd need to be superwoman to get over that and she's not superwoman. She's just human like the rest of us.

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 11:18

When John McEnroe did it he got offered sponsorships.

This is an interesting point. John McEnroe got offered sponsorships because he was an exceptional player, but the whiny brat element and I'm old enough to remember this first-hand, as I'm sure many others are on this thread gave him an added notoriety. I'm sure Serena has also had sponsorships because she is even more exceptional (by a country mile), but her explosiveness would be seen as a liability, not a plus.

nolongersurprised · 09/09/2018 11:19

McEnroe was penalised, fined and IIRC even suspended from an Australian Open for his antics.

Serena has form for this as well. What about that time she told a linesperson that she was going to, “Ram this fucking ball down (your) fucking throat”?

It’s not an “ism” issue - she didn’t destroy her racquet and abuse the umpire to fight for women’s rights.

What about her opponent? She’s also a woman, is a strong athlete and has experienced racism in Japan for being Haitian. She was outplaying her and she was robbed of the ability to celebrate that.

glintandglide · 09/09/2018 11:20

So as an example Mrs Steptoe Serena finished work no1 seed in the world and returned number 142*

How about her returning no 1 where she left off?

That way she’s had no advantage against non mothers, she’s simply resumed. And the non mothers haven’t had their advantage of climbing up the rankings without Serena there for 6 months. Everyone is in the same place they started at.

Positive discrimination, but not really unfair I don’t think?

  • sorry these numbers may not be exactly right I can’t recall and haven’t checked. You get my point though.
Lockheart · 09/09/2018 11:20

It is true that there is a sexist bias which has been displayed in some tennis games, and it’s true that some male players have not received penalties for similar behaviour.

But the problem is that the male tennis players were not penalised and they should have been.

It is right that Serena was given penalties for the coaching, the racket smashing, and arguing with the umpire.

It is not right that other male players have done the same without being reprimanded.

It must be frustrating, but the fact that someone else got away with bad behaviour is not a get out clause. Male players should be held to the same standards and bad behaviour should not be tolerated.

BadLad · 09/09/2018 11:21

nolongersurprised here is a list of McEnroe's fines etc.

www.deseretnews.com/article/171029/FOR-THE-RECORD-MCENROES-TANTRUMS-AND-FINES.html

bbcessex · 09/09/2018 11:22

I’m such a fan of hers.

She’s what, one year on after giving birth, and competing at this standard?

With a partner who supports her, she supports other women, she’s a champion for women & many other things.

So what if she gets ranty? I got ranty is Tesco substituted tomatoes for tomato sauce when my baby was one.

MrsSteptoe · 09/09/2018 11:22

@glintandglide I'm still thinking! Grin