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Original poster

To not appreciate Serena using sexism in her arguments against umpire

518 replies

user1471517900 · 09/09/2018 10:07

Sorry if there is a thread, I did scan four pages to check.

Serena gets coached (which her coach admits) but claims she didn't see it. Then smashes a racquet in separate fit of temper. Then tells the umpire she can't be a cheat because she's a mother(!), he will never referee a match again with her, and he's a thief.

The punishments all seem fine to me and I really felt for Osaka having to apologise in her winners speech. Serena should be saying sorry today IMO.

OP posts:
IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 18:09

In football, everyone shrugs their shoulders and says, well the money isn't there, the gates for women's games just aren't comparable. In fact, I used to say that

But it's true, isn't it? Rightly or wrongly, there is very little interest in women's fooball, whereas men's footbal is a huge global industry. Of course the men are going to paid multiples of what the women get paid, just as top female models earn a lot more than their male counterparts because the men's fashion industry is nowhere near as large or as profitable as the women's.

But suddenly we have a men's rights furore over Wimbledon, where customers buy tickets that cover both men's and women's rounds, and the prizes for winning are equal for men and women. Suddenly it's not about ticket sales any more?

Ticket sales are only a small part of the business. The real money is in TV rights. And again - rightly or wrongly - men's tennis is much more popular than women's tennis. That's unlikely to change any time soon.

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 12/09/2018 18:12

Ah, that reminds me; I don't notice anyone commenting much on social media about the prize for the men's doubles, either, which is also five sets.

Can't think why!

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 12/09/2018 18:23

IcedPurple currently, the men's game is more popular. However, in previous discussions of this subject people have been quite certain that back in the days of Steffi Graf, the women's game drove the ticket sales, though.

I wasn't there, but I will say that reducing the prize money won't improve the status of women's tennis.

IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 18:29

I was there, and I remember the crowd-pleasing male stars such as Boris Becker, Stefan Edberg, Ivan Lendl and of course Graf's now husband Andre Agassi.

I very much doubt women's tennis was the main draw even then.

Want2bSupermum · 12/09/2018 18:29

She had a really horrible start to motherhood. Returning to work has been hell for her. She has been told she can't wear a compression outfit at the French Open. She totally lost her ranking when she took leave to have a baby. It was at Wimbledon they gave her a wild card to help her get back her ranking. Quite frankly it's only been Wimbledon who has been 'friendly' to her, which I think was the right thing to do.

I have so much time for both Williams sisters. They are phenomenal players and women. Serena has married a good man who fully supports her and her career. Compare and contrast to the career of someone like Martina Hingis. They both broke through at about the same time. Reading articles about both players you can really see the racism directed at the Williams sisters.

IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 18:33

@Want2bSupermum

All of the above may be true, but I fail to see what it has to do with her obnoxious behaviour last weekend.

rachmack · 12/09/2018 18:38

I am an athlete and regularly experience sexism mostly outside of major completion but the international structure of the sport I compete in is hugely gender biased and in fact as result risks the health of the female participants. However on this occasion Serena has done little to further gender equality by linking poor behaviour and unsportsmanlike conduct to sexism. She broke the rules repeatedly and was sanctioned within as per the guidelines by an umpire who is widely known to be strict on the rules. It’s a very unfortunate situation and sadly there is no winner.

BoneyBackJefferson · 12/09/2018 18:41

Want2bSupermum

So how does that excuse what she did and what she said to a man that was doing his job and by all accounts doing it better than many others?

Lichtie · 12/09/2018 18:42

Want2b. Don't think anyone is denying they have experienced racism, there will always be idiots out there.
It is interesting though the criticism she received for marrying a white man, she can't win, seems there are idiots in all races.

BaconAndAvocado · 12/09/2018 19:32

Serena, as seen at many other matches, behaved like a spoilt brat because she was losing.

Grow up!

beclev24 · 12/09/2018 19:34

i haven't RTFT but the difference between how male players are treated when they fight back and how females are treated is shocking. THis is pure sexism:

www.facebook.com/rebelgirls/videos/244054996306766/UzpfSTcwNzI0NTI1ODoxMDE1NjM3OTE0Njk3NTI1OQ/

IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 19:42

Anyone can put together a video of isolated incidents going back decades. It doesn't mean anything unless you can prove a systematic pattern. And even then, given that men and women play in seperate contests, it doesn't prove 'sexism'.

And using John McEnroe as evidence is silly. Firstly, because he played 3 decades ago when rules were different. Secondly, because he was widely regarded as obnoxious and was even banned from the Australian Open at one stage.

MQv2 · 12/09/2018 19:55

"beclev24

i haven't RTFT but the difference between how male players are treated when they fight back and how females are treated is shocking. THis is pure sexism:"

Your right
Some of those incidents lead to the men forgetting the entire matches which didn't happen to Seren, pure sexism that.

In reality that video doesn't show how the men were treated at all because it doesn't show the punishments fished out, and if one was to be cynical you might think that's because the creators of the video want to imply that no punishment was forthcoming unlike the targeted Serena

BoneyBackJefferson · 12/09/2018 19:57

Personally I am quite pleased that the umpires may become unionised over this.

With any luck it will mean that we can watch tennis as a well played sport instead of "personalities" getting away with their bullshit.

Want2bSupermum · 12/09/2018 19:57

The issue is others break the rules all the time. They aren't called on it like Serena was and they aren't punished in the same way.

She snapped. I don't hold that against her given the history and I don't think she pulled the 'I'm a mother' card. Very few people have given her a break. She is 15 years older than her competitors and has recently had a baby which has been held against her.

I went back to work 8 weeks after having my 2nd. The silent sexism I experienced was interesting. American and Canadian coworkers were very supportive. Coworkers from elsewhere in the world saw it as an opportunity to attack me. I was working for a British partner who was particularly vile.

BoneyBackJefferson · 12/09/2018 20:03

Want2bSupermum
The issue is others break the rules all the time.

the issue is that umpires have become lax in performing their jobs.

They aren't called on it like Serena was

But they have been

and they aren't punished in the same way.

They have been fined, lost points and automatically lost matches.

IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 20:10

The issue is others break the rules all the time. They aren't called on it like Serena was and they aren't punished in the same way.

As has been pointed out several times, that simply is not true.

I don't think she pulled the 'I'm a mother' card.

She literally said "I have a daughter" in one of her rants to the umpire. How could that possibly be relevant to.... anything?

She is 15 years older than her competitors

Eh? What sort of an argument is that? There was a time when she was 15 years younger than some of her competitors. That's sport. Youth is strongly correlated with ability.

and has recently had a baby which has been held against her.

How has it been 'held against her'? She chose to have a child and take time out, thereby putting herself at a disadvantage to those who have not put their body through such strain and have not taken a year off tennis.

She simply wasn't good enough to win last weekend. That's no shame.

Want2bSupermum · 12/09/2018 20:11

boney Your excuses are weak. She has been mistreated for years. She is an amazing athlete. So what she snapped. The umpire should be ashamed of himself. He is the one of many who owe her an apology.

IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 20:13

The umpire should be ashamed of himself

Could you - as specifically as possible - say exactly what the umpire did which was in violation of the rules of tennis?

And saying 'men get away with it' - even if true - is not an answer.

Wedding5inger · 12/09/2018 20:15

I feel like we have to consider the context in this situation. She has been constantly put down and criticised for being strong (physically and otherwise) and given an irrationally hard time by the media and commentators. This is due to misoginoir and is what black women face every day of their lives, to a less publicised degree. Djokovic absolutely exploded at the same umpire last month and gets away with no punishment. There are numerous male tennis players who do the same and face no consequences. And this is in the context of a highly sexist sport where women are penalised for modestly switching round their t-shirts, where they had to fight to get paid, and where they are still paid less than men. No wonder she is fed up and on one occasion she cracked like the human being she is.

BoneyBackJefferson · 12/09/2018 20:15

Want2bSupermum

The umpire has nothing wrong, he upheld the rules.

She is an amazing athlete but she has also threatened to shove a tennis ball down someones throat. What is your excuse for that?

She is a bad loser and has made someone that outplayed her unable to fully enjoy her victory.

IcedPurple · 12/09/2018 20:23

There are numerous male tennis players who do the same and face no consequences.

Again, even if that is true - and refereeing in sports will always be inconsistent to some degree - how does this justify Serena calling the umpire 'a liar and a thief' (amongst other offences)?

Do you believe the umpire's conduct was in violation of the game's rules?

they are still paid less than men.

No they aren't.

Want2bSupermum · 12/09/2018 20:28

boney When the computer says no you don't take that as gospel. There is such a thing as consistent application of the rules to all players. Your attitude is very petty and you discount the ridiculous scrutiny she is subjected to.

Sharipova was banned for taking performance enhancing drugs yet they have tested Serena more often. I find that very disturbing. Clearly they don't like strong women.

Sakura7 · 12/09/2018 20:31

Men do get code violations, as do women. Usually after the first one, or at very least the second one, the player has had the sense to calm down and not jeopardise their match.

Serena just kept on going, that's why the penalties escalated. She's looking for special treatment which is ridiculous.

BoneyBackJefferson · 12/09/2018 20:33

Want2bSupermum

Your attitude is very petty

In your opinion.

and you discount the ridiculous scrutiny she is subjected to.

I discount it in this situation because she knows the rules of tennis, she knows what happens if they are broken and she knows what happens if she continues to break them.

That you seem to think that what she has gone through should allow her to abuse people doing their job is disturbing.