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Original poster

To not appreciate Serena using sexism in her arguments against umpire

518 replies

user1471517900 · 09/09/2018 10:07

Sorry if there is a thread, I did scan four pages to check.

Serena gets coached (which her coach admits) but claims she didn't see it. Then smashes a racquet in separate fit of temper. Then tells the umpire she can't be a cheat because she's a mother(!), he will never referee a match again with her, and he's a thief.

The punishments all seem fine to me and I really felt for Osaka having to apologise in her winners speech. Serena should be saying sorry today IMO.

OP posts:
MrsSteptoe · 10/09/2018 17:21

I just heard on TalkSport that Serena's press conf gives a more informed take on events. Biased, of course, bound to be, but perhaps worth checking out.

ferrier · 10/09/2018 17:44

Which press conference? The one immediately post match or has there been one today?

Just because 'everyone does it' doesn't mean it shouldn't be penalised. I'll take an educated guess that Ramos will have looked at the box a few times, spotted Mouratoglou giving signals but not Bajin, and given the code violation once he was sure in his own mind about what was going on.

GunpowderGelatine · 10/09/2018 17:51

Just seen this on Facebook. Interesting www.facebook.com/rebelgirls/videos/244054996306766/

Inkanta · 10/09/2018 18:22

I see Serena turns 37 this month - which is getting on a bit for tennis. I was wondering if some of this behaviour could be about her career coming to the end - she's going out with a bang. There could be some grieving as well - like death throes kind of behaviour.

Lichtie · 10/09/2018 18:23

So her coach admitted coaching, but says she wasn't looking? Why would you give signals to someone that isn't looking?
Whether or not she should have got a violation for it doesn't really matter. The abuse she gave the umpire and smashing her racket got exactly what it should have.

MrsSteptoe · 10/09/2018 18:29

Which press conference? The one immediately post match or has there been one today?

mmm, sorry, don't know. Good q.

Aspenfrost · 10/09/2018 18:33

where the umpire or ref has that kind of power to influence outcomes

Nah. She was losing and she knew it.

Rainbunny · 10/09/2018 18:51

I completely agree OP, I'm a massive tennis fan and I appreciate SW's talent but her behaviour was unacceptable and the lazy accusation of sexism was bollocks. The umpire in this situation is actually notorious for being a stickler for the rules and treats the male players just the same as the women.

As I've mentioned I love tennis and watch a lot of matches and in recent years I've become really turned off by the increasingly sycophantic press coverage of SW - greatest player of all time etc... It makes me cringe when I see the fawning hero-worship that commentators dissolve into and if I have to hear one more time about how incredible she is for having a baby I'll throw my own tennis racket at the tv! She's hardly the first to have a child and come back in tennis and not even the first women to have a baby and go on to win a grand slam (which SW has not yet done) but you'd think she was the first woman on earth to have a baby. Watching the commentary about her tantrum was depressing, it was all "poor SW" and no objective perspective about the fact that she clearly committed every violation she was punished for. The worst part is that SW will never ever admit that she was in the wrong and will continue to feel like she is the victim. Several years ago she threatened to ram a ball down the throat of a line judge who called her out for making a foot fault and she has never apologised or acknowledged her appalling behaviour and I think she even insinuated that the line judge (an Asian American woman) was racist because apparently if you try to hold SW accountable you must be either racist or sexist.

Wow, apparently I've been wanting to vent about this!

Inkanta · 10/09/2018 18:55

'apparently if you try to hold SW accountable you must be either racist or sexist.'

Yes exactly! Smile

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/09/2018 18:59

People are getting close to saying that she was robbed of a grand slam title when this couldn't be further from the truth.

Merrylegs · 10/09/2018 19:02

Ah. I adore Serena. She truly is the GOAT. I was rooting for her absolutely and I do think she has a tough time around the game.

BUT just had an interesting conversation with DS who is an actual official umpire. He was watching. His take is that the umpire followed the rules to the letter and did exactly what their training demands, step by step at each point of error (coaching, racket throwing, verbal abuse.) He could read the rule book this guy was following. Serena couldn’t make a ball and was getting frustrated. She knew she was being coached – and even if she didn’t, the coach is her responsibility. If the umpire deems you are being coached even if you are not paying attention to your coach that is tough luck. You get penalised. Serena made it all about her (of course, she wanted to win!)

(DS did an Osaka match two years ago when she was 18 on an outside court at Wimbledon. She has come a long way. Fab. Well done her).

Rainbunny · 10/09/2018 19:15

Merrylegs - you make good points and I don't think that many people realise that the Umpire has very little discretion in some respects, if he sees blatant coaching (and it was blatant although I do believe that SW genuinely didn't see it) the umpire has to uphold his duty to award a coaching violation, it isn't fair to Osaka if he ignored it. Likewise when SW trashed her tennis racket it is an AUTOMATIC violation, the umpire couldn't choose to ignore that. As for SW's verbal abuse directed at the umpire, sure he had discretion to ignore it but really why should he? How much abuse should umpires be expected to take whether it's from a male or female player?

ABJ1 · 10/09/2018 19:57

Haven't we got short memories... she's got massive form, she does women a massive disservice by conflating with sexism.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/usopen/6182175/US-Open-2009-Serena-Williams-unrepentant-for-rant-after-Kim-Clijsters-defeat.html

Clawdy · 10/09/2018 20:06

I've always been a Serena fan. I'm not now. I hated seeing her spoil any pleasure poor Osaka got from that precious win. Her behaviour was vile.

Rainbunny · 10/09/2018 20:25

Clawdy - I agree. I really WANT to be a SW fan but I can't ignore the fact that time after time her behaviour has been awful including threats of violence! Add that to the fact that she is rather a poor loser - she always talks about how she played badly/was fighting a virus/injury etc to explain a loss but never acknowledges that her opponent played well. It's always "she didn't play as well as she can, never her opponent played better on the day" It's a small thing perhaps but I've really noticed it over the years.

Meredith501 · 10/09/2018 20:31

Tbh I went off her when she set up a twitter account for her baby.

specialsubject · 10/09/2018 20:54

dont know how it works in America, but the uk is full of signs reminding us that people have the right to do their jobs without abuse. I dont see how a tennis umpire is any different.

Facing the end of a successful sports career is notoriously difficult, especially if you have never done anything else. Nonetheless it is coming and someone needs to tell Serena to cope or get help.

wizzler · 10/09/2018 20:59

I think she is a fabulous player, and I think she has achieved amazing things.

I think she may well have a point about women tennis players being judged more harshly then men.

However, she was wrong to slate the umpire . I would be mortified if my Dd behaved like that , so I won't be encouraging her to see Serena as a role model, and that's a shame.

Mrsmadevans · 10/09/2018 21:16

She's a bad loser bereft of any humility.

nolongersurprised · 10/09/2018 21:33

It’s a massive conflation as well to say that she had a game removed for standing up for herself against accusations of cheating (or whatever). Ramos said she was being coached (and she was). If she’d grumbled a bit, shaken her head and moved on Osaka would’ve been allowed her moment of glory. She’s responsible for the massive escalation. Why is it sexist to be pulled up for being coached?

It’s a bit like:
13 year old daughter is FaceTiming and you don’t relapse this and hear the phrase “damn it” and think it’s directed at you. You tell her off mildly and she claims she and a friend are repeating what a student at school said to the teacher and they’re talking about how much trouble he got in. You say you don’t want to hear it in any context.

Daughter then trashes her room because because you didn’t believe her and you remove iPad privileges because of room trashing.

Daughter then becomes shouty and abusive to you and screams in your face and you ground her and she can’t go on a sleepover she’s been looking forward to.

Daughter tells anyone who would listen that she’s been banned for the sleepover because she said “damn”.

jacks11 · 10/09/2018 21:34

Whilst there may well be sexism in Tennis as to how women are treated vs men, I think Serena called it wrong here. She lost her cool and behaved badly. Then tried to blame it on sexism. There is a wider context of unequal treatment of men and women with regards disciplinary action agains players but I think in the specific case that it wasn't based on sexism.

The whole thing was set off by the Umpire seeing her coach attempt to coach her during the match- which is a violation and which he was right to penalise. I believe this particular umpire is well known for being quite strict in his application of the rules and has sanctioned players for this in the past. Serena's coach admitted that he had coached but said he didn't think Serena had seen (and who knows whether that's correct or not).

Serena objected to this and went off on a tirade, which was completely unnecessary. And then threw her racket in a fit of temper. For which she was sanctioned further. Again, looking at this particular umpire he has sanctioned Andy Murray and Rafael Nadal among others for instance- so it is harder to say this is all based on sexism.

Her actions after that- the way she kept ranting and the way she talked to the umpire and so on- was really not on and she deserved to be punished IMHO. She did lose her temper and she paid the consequence for that. I suspect the umpire was fed up of the ongoing behaviour- it wasn't just the coaching incident, nor the throwing the racket or the shouting and ranting- it was the combination.

I feel sorry for the winner, she should have been able to celebrate her achievement. I doubt she can do so properly now.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 10/09/2018 21:45

I'm reminded of Michelle Obama's speech where she says "when they go low, we go high"

I also used to be a teacher and we were told in training about classroom management that the minute you lose your rag with the kids, is the moment you lose the argument.

What SW should have done, after the first code violation, is to calm down, stop the tantrum and get on with concentrating on her game. If that had happened then maybe she might have won? But even if she hadn't, she would now be in the position where she could use what happened I that match in conversations about racism and sexism and be listened to - instead she shot herself in the foot and, even worse, took away the joy of a victory from another woman of colour who had experienced racism and probably sexism as well.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 10/09/2018 21:46

Or what Jacks111 said!

QuiQuaiQuod · 10/09/2018 21:49

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QuiQuaiQuod · 10/09/2018 21:52

and now Billie Jean King and the sisterhood all behind her too. FFS.

Only Annabel Croft said it like it is. (sky news).

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