Secondary school uniform

[Bumbelinadance]

AIBU to say I just kind of feel the focus should be on educating children not their appearance . Ds just started secondary school Who decided a fully buttoned up to the top button shirt and tie was required
...? He hates how that feels all day. Restricting !
He is in a regular state school , yet his uniform was so expensive my parents Kindly stepped in

Surely it up up to the children to decide what path they go down as adults surely ?They can suit it and boot it if they choose to go into a profession where a certain dress code is required .
Comfortable trousers or joggers / skirts if preferred at a reasonable price and a school logo jumper might shift the focus from appearance to learning

I am all for a ban on designer logos and trainers to avoid a haves / have nots scenario
But I really dont get the English uniform obsession

Also I feel hugely amazed by our teachers and support them fully , feel the profession like most of our key workers ( ambulance drivers, nurses , police etc) is underpaid and under appreciated
But I don’t think their job should be to enforce a terribly old fashioned view that an 11 year old should wear a blazer. I also feel very strongly my child should be allowed to express himself as he wishes with his hairstyle and dress PROVIDED HE REMAINS POLITE AND RESPECTFUL TO HIS TEACHERS / ADULTS and meets the schools expectations with academic effort and behaviour
If he wants tramlines in his hair how does that affect whether he gets an a or a d grade ..?

They are there to learn
Achieve their potential
Be told they can be an astronaught if they work hard enough
Not told their appearance defines them

It isn’t really accepted in the workplace so why is it happening in our schools ...?

Myfrei Ds in the USA send their kids to school in clothes they are comfortable in ,so they can focus on learning

I am sure that was awful for your sister. I don't see how the teacher was at fault though

Delude yourself all you like, polo shirts are not smart. Nothing can change that fact.
Smart casual.
A plain polo shirt, worn tucked in with suit trousers and a blazer is smart casual. Requiring anything more formal for school is inappropriate in my opinion.

If you can’t see how refusing a child a trip to the loo is wrong beksyt there’s not much I can do to help you.

I am not too fussed if children in my class wear
trousers or skirts
polo or shirts
jumper or sweatshirt

The bottom line is they have to wear uniform and follow my rules.

@ Isentthesignal
If I am aware of a medical problem I let them as I'm sure that teacher would have.

We set too much store my uniform in this country. Many highly successful countries, such as Germany, don't have uniform. In China, they do have uniform but it is usually tracksuits and polo shirts.

Honestly, I don't hold with these arguments that uniform helps children learn to be smart. I think quite the opposite - because you never have to consider what to wear.

I can understand the ban on tram lines though - they are associated with gang culture.

What bugs me is that the uniform NEVER gets updated. Kids are still wearing the same uniform I was 20 years ago. I’m not saying it should follow fashion but it’s so far beyond that now.

Boys trousers. Baggy loose suit looking things that nobody outside of a school would wear. Anything remotely slim fitting or skinny isn’t allowed. Girls kilts down to the knees. Ties for girls. The obsession with blazers. It’s ridiculous.

I was the poor scholarship kid at a rich grammar. I was so glad we had uniform as I didn't feel the pressure to keep up. We were all the same.

Dd goes to one of the best schools in our nearest big city, it has no uniform.
So much better, and easier, they mainly wear jeans/t-shirts/hoodies.
No, they don't look particularly smart, they look comfortable, and learn well there.

The bottom line is they have to wear uniform and follow my rules

Fair enough and under normal circumstances, that’s exactly as it should be at school. If there’s a uniform, you have to wear it and of course you have to obey the teacher’s rules. But you lost all credibility for me when you said one of your ‘rules’ is ‘no going for a wee’ . Your opinion sank further in my estimation when you then said “if an 11yo can’t hold it for two hours then I don’t hold out much hope of them getting on in life” . What the devil has going for a piss when you feel like it got to do with your likelihood of success in life? I take if you don’t do careers counselling?

A medical problem can present initially at any time including in your classroom but you don’t seem to have the ability to deal with it in an appropriate way - as you have stated.
I had stomach craps in the airport last week - I nearly missed my plane - I had no choice but to go to the loo, how do you stop that happening in you class Beksyt? We’d all love to know your top tip for holding on - because believe me crossing my legs would not have worked!

My eldest kids school has no uniform. They have business dress. It's brilliant. Especially the kid who rocks up in a purple three piece suit with fob watch.

Some kids look great, some bend the rules. From speaking to my mum this is not a new problem. She was hoiking her skirt up above her arse cheeks more than 50 years ago... so I don't see a demise in the "yoof"...

Interestingly this school also calls teachers by first names, no Sir or Miss here. The levels of respect are like nothing I have ever seen - and I've worked a school.

The work argument is interesting. My DH is emergency services and feels like he's been wearing a uniform all his sodding life. I think he would take more pride in his clothes outside of work if he wasn't so restricted every day. Of course his uniform is essential (not criticising that)... but much like some of us peel a bra off with relief, his uniform gets peeled off and dumped in the washer to be replaced by comfy joggers...

At my work we recently followed in the footsteps of PWC by ditching the dress code in favour of a statement that basically tells people to dress as they think appropriate for work.

I thought carnage would ensue but the opposite happened. All the lads who clearly had two slightly grey work shirts and two work trousers that they used to shuffle to work in suddenly looked smarter - yes some of the styling was a bit more creative, but their best clothes came out of the wardrobe. Especially the IT guys who looked like a bag of laundry before the change. A few people make poor choices about work attire... but they are the same people who were failing to grasp the dress code when we had one.

I'm only a fan of uniform choices that are flexible, cheap, and allow individuality. One of my kids goes to a school that has a much more practical and physical curriculum and they just have a logo Tee Shirt and blazer.... everything else must be black. When they walk out of school they are a riot of purple and green hair and some interesting interpretations of the uniform guidelines but they are smart enough for the work they are doing.... of note, my kid used to hare school and now rushes at least 2 hours early every morning... it's not just the uniform that makes that difference of course, but the approach speaks to the wider attitude of the school which focuses on achievement and inclusivity rather than wasting energy disciplining young people over their collar...

As for people saying uniform prevents bullying I call bullshit on that one. I came from a hard up family and attended a school with a strict uniform. I was teased for having the wrong shoes, because it was clear I only had one jumper (that was my one jumper for 4 years because it cost £38 new)... and for not having trendy trainers for PE. Had I been wearing my own clothes I think less people would have noticed we couldn't afford the uniform....

I agree that uniform doesn't mean you can't tell the difference between rich and poor. You still need clothes for outside of school, they may not get worn out as fast, but you need enough changes for the holidays, and will be outgrown just the same. So uniform is extra clothes to buy that are only worn at school.

Poorer kids are going to be in second hand and hand me downs, or new but fewer sets of uniform. Middle class kids often have all new, bought to fit each year (Yes, I've read that the rich are often in second hand too).

A medical problem can present initially at any time including in your classroom but you don’t seem to have the ability to deal with it in an appropriate way - as you have stated.
When did I say I don't have the ability to deal with it in an appropriate way?

@Eliza9917

You are entitled to your opinion but you should really bite your tongue (or fingers in this case) and not throw insults around about strangers children.
The smarter the uniform does not mean the better the education, and you thinking so makes you sound like the deluded one not me.

Different countries have different cultures, so just because no uniform works in other countries doesn't mean it would work in the UK.

Schools are there to educate pupils, they are not social clubs for children to express themselves. Uniformity demonstrates adherence to the rules and good behaviour. I would never send my children to a bear-pit of a school that are so loose with rules.

Re hand me downs, my kids went to a private school with a very specific uniform. Kids wearing worn or faded hand me downs were perceived as ‘cool’ by the others as it showed they had older sibs who’d also attended said school.
It has been my experience that the more money people have, the less they care about things like a hole in a cashmere jumper

My Dd's school is far from a bear pit!
People move into a very expensive area to be in catchment for it.
When she started it was 2nd in the league tables, and 1st was restrictive because of language.

beksyt i made them aware as soon as she started..but they chose to ignore it.
I dont believe uniform prevents bullying either, cause bullying still happens. If a child dares to go against what the majority are doing they are bullied.
Teaching acceptance would be better than enforcing a uniform, presentable should be enough, also what does it matter if their hair is pink, green, blue shapes shaved in..aslong as theres no swear words whsts the issue.

I loved my school uniform. Blazer and tie at a time that not many schools ha such a formal
Uniform. It gave me a sense of pride in my school and a sense of identity. Likewise I feel proud to put on my nurses uniform. I earned the right to wear it through my own hard work. I'd hate to have to decide what to wear every day.

Of course, the other reason for uniforms is so that children out of school can be recognised, and crappy behaviour can be addressed with the school.

There's nothing more frustrating than observing a group of children bullying another child on the bus and not being able to work out which school they've come from so you can inform the school that they have a problem.

It's not just about in-school uniformity, it's about out-of-school accountability.

Because Beksyt you said As for going to the toilet, learn to cross your legs until break time. I never let my year 6 class go. I really hope none of the kids you teach has an embarrassing toilet accident in your class as a result of your insensitive rules, there doesn’t seem to be any point engaging with you further on this matter - you are either being deliberately goady or you lack humanity, maybe a bit of both.

It really would be interesting to see how many of mumsnetter's children seriously have a problem with uniform and a no toilet in lesson rule?

Just asked 15yo about this , response was that loved wearing uniform and couldn’t be arsed deciding what to wear everyday, let alone “competing “ with the more ‘fashion conscious ‘ pupils.
Also said that they are all fully aware that going to the loo during lessons is discouraged but not a hanging offence if desperate