Death penalty

[birthdayboo]

I don't quite understand the logic of people who want to murder people who have committed awful crimes.

I do understand saying you wish you could, verbalising the anger felt and not literally meaning you would actually carry out a killing yourself.

I don't understand when people swear they would actually kill

One horrific crime doesn't go away because you commit another horrific crime such as murder on the guilty?

I don't understand the death penalty either - I totally agree that life seems too good for some people, however it's still legalising murdering a human being to have the state kill them - so I just can't get my head around murdering someone because they murdered someone. Perhaps some form of voluntary self administered euthanasia being available by prescription to individuals who will never leave prison in their lifetime would be a solution to how much money it costs to house prisoners however it's not even like people get death penalty and it happens soon, they spend ages and have money spent on holding them prior to execution

@Aintnothingbutaheartache actually I think death is too kind and easy. We always say about losing a loved one that they are "at peace" now and whether you believe in heaven/hell or afterlife there's something instinctive in us that feels like people are peaceful after death, pain ends for them (not for us who miss them)

Putting a man who raped a baby in prison for the rest of his life I think is far more of a punishment to him. Prison population doesn't exactly like those men. Stigma and fear for life - is more punishment imo

You make a choice as a society to take a higher ground.
Death penalty’s do not work as a deterrent
Do we want to be that society?
It fails on every level.

When we had the death penalty, who got killed for being a peodophile? No one, it was fucking rife and most people turned a blind eye to it.

Sentencing is much harsher now than it’s been for many years.

I speak as someone who lost a sibling to a drunk driver. Maybe not deliberately murdered. But a life for a life?? where do we draw the line.

I will never support the death penalty, it’s the end of a civilised society impo.

It’s not like The Shawshank Redemption, yes, I agree that other inmates may well be physical towards nonces (pardon moi) but it really isn’t punishment enough is it.
I know it’s all very emotive but I would happily kick the stool away from Huntley and the evil fuckers that took Madeline McCann

I wouldn't. I can't guarantee they don't get anything but peace as I haven't experienced death. And I just don't know what happens beyond this life for them. But I know their relatives and associates will feel bereavement

I can guarantee they will feel afraid though in prison as a nonce.

Sentencing is much harsher now than it’s been for many years

You don't live in Scotland
Where the NOT PROVEN
Verdict is still in use.

@ParkheadParadise
Correct ! I don’t live in Scotland.

So you’re ok with them ‘feeling afraid’ and their relatives feeling ‘bereavement ‘ ?
Really?
Read that back to yourself and tell me if anything sounds a little ‘off’

How does the death penalty not work as a deterrent?

I don't think it's fair that relatives of people who commit horrific crimes suffer bereavement if we kill them no. Relatives have not committed the crime. They are also victims in another sense.

It's always the families of both perpetrators and victims who suffer more than the perpetrators whatever the punishment- even if it was the death penalty. Their suffering doesn't end does it?

How does the death penalty not work as a deterrent?

America.

@Aintnothingbutaheartache
WHO TOOK MADELEINE
Because if you know you should contact the police ASAP

You’re the reason we shouldn’t have the death penalty, you don’t know who took her, you don’t know what happened, but you’re still ready to put a noose round a hypothetical persons neck. Idiocy. Thank fuck you’re not in charge.

How does the death penalty not act as a deterrent?

Drug dealing
Prostitution
Carrying a gun
Carrying a knife

All these things massively increase your likelihood of death, but people still do them in staggering numbers.

I will have to look up the study again, but the evidence suggests it is the likelihood of capture which is the deterrent, not the severity of punishment.

My point was lowtide that if the person/persons responsible for abducting that little girl from her bed and being responsible for whatever the poor little mites fate was were discovered, then I would fully support a very strong course of action

You know what, we could discuss this until the old cows come home.
It’s a very big topic and many people have strong views.
I would just like to say, again, that if anyone harmed my kids I would want them dealt with, whatever that may mean to you

@Aintnothingbutaheartache
You’d have hung a person in your mind even though you know no circumstances and it’s all conjecture?

People like you shouldn’t be able to decide. You’d have been buying some toffee apples and standing at Newgate prison a couple of hundred years ago instead of watching shit tv for entertainment
.
Where do we draw the line? Which murdererers are worse and who decides? The baying public ? Or the judiciary.

All these things affect our moral compass. Our society is reflected in how we treat the lowest common denominators.

@Aintnothingbutaheartache
Well I guess you would have to take it into your own hands then. As we don’t have the death penalty, and then maybe you would have to face the thought that everyone else might think you deserve the death penalty too, because why is one life worth more than another.
It’s a failed argument.
Veangance will never heal you.

@lowtide I think you’ll find it’s ‘hanged’ not ‘hung’, please check, it might save you future embarrassment

"I don't understand when people swear they would actually kill"

I think there's a big difference between swearing they would and actually doing it.

I have killed (CO19) and although I know I did the right thing, it has a massive effect on me.

I don't think I could out of revenge. I'm a very calm and mindful person. I can't remember acting impulsively but kind of understand crimes of passion or acting in the moment. Not cold-blooded revenge.

What really surprised me was how sexual the comments were on the Living With a Pedophile thread. Not pro-death penalty but sexual abuse. I hope those women were just trying to act cool.

Hey low just read another thread you’re on. Just want to say I understand your frustration and anger

I much rather 100 guilty people go free then 1 innocent person die.

The death penalty is not justice it is vengeance the state in the USA that carries out the 2nd most amount of death senteces (Texas) has a population less then the UK but the only country / state that kills more is China with a population of over a billion.

Is Texas a safer state because of the death penalty? Or is it one of the most dangerous states in the USA.

Spoiler it is the most dangerous States despite the "deterate" of the death penalty. If it stopped or reduced crime would you not think it would one of the safest states?

I mean the state of texas population of around 50 million is only beaten in the number of executions by a nation of over 1 billion. Does not seem like much of a deterrent to me.

Maybe it’s not a deterrent, maybe it’s not the answer but it’s something I would vote for if someone killed my child.

We watched the film Alpha, something sain stuck with me “ survival is earned not a right”

Killing is cheap, easy and justifiable. We are animals with a thin veneer of decency that is all.

People who debate the moral side of the death penalty are overthinking it, because the are assuming that we are more than animals.

If needs must I would certainly kill to protect my family. It’s survival no different to a crow killing a lizard trying to eat its eggs.

I strongly oppose the death penalty for a number of reasons. It's irreversible, meaning subsequent discovery of innocence or mitigation cannot be acted on. It's a myth that it's cheaper, certainly in America it costs more than imprisoning someone for life. It's disproportionately applied to black and working class individuals in America. It has a knock on effect of causing innocent people to take a plea deal to avoid the possibility of the death penalty. Again, based on America (as the other main users of the death penalty eg China, Iran, Saudi Arabia are clouded in secrecy - an issue on its own) it clearly doesn't have a deterrent effect based on murder rates. Even if the individual is definitely guilty, there's also the impact on innocent people connected to them (who may or may not also be connected to the victim)

We have a legal system for a reason. I don't want to live in a society that has some kind of blood feud system where the victims of a crime get to murder the criminal. I'm sure some of that goes on in areas where gangs are strong, and that really makes society stronger and safer -not.