Am I being unreasonable to hate my child at this point and feel calling the police on him again

[Cheeeeislifenow]

New username. My son is 13 He has High functioning autism and I suspect Pathalogical Demand Avoidance. He is very intelligent,smart and as I said his autism is high functioning officially Asperger's syndrome.
He has been the most difficult child I have ever come across in my life. I have had so many interventions from pshycoligists, support workers socai workers etc over the years. He is making life hell for all of us.
His language is appalling he calls me so many names and hits me and kicks and spits. This starts when he doesn't get his own way it feels jealous of his brothers.
I just can't take anymore. My depression is crippling me, he is like an abusive partner that I can never leave. Example: this weekend I had asked him to hang out the washing, he did, and did a poor job of it. Many times I have shown him how to do it. I told him next time could he do it the way I showed him. He started a massive row and ended up hitting me repeatedly and spitting at me. He told me that he the whole family would be happier if I killed myself. I am deeply sad and feel my soul has been slashed.
I have been cold with him and tried to explain why today. I asked him to try and place his self in my shoes. He said I was selfish and should consider his feelings.
I explained as he had hurt me it is up to him to show remorse.
He continued to swear and I sent him to room. He refused to stop making noise as his brothers were asleep. He refused and screamed in my face "when will you stop fucking fighting with me.. ?"I remained calm and left the room, he followed me called me a cunt and a shit mother and slapped me.
I have recently got the police to speak to him and thought perhaps he would stop being physically violent.
Aibu to call the police again? I am afraid if how he is going to turn out. He behaves like an abusive partner in terms of his gaslighting and his attitude towards me.
I really in this moment hate him and hate myself more for thinking it.
We have had this kind of treatment for 7 years from him and I just cannot take any more... Do I call the police? Will they come down very hard on him? I am in Ireland there are no juvenile liason officers until a crime has been committed and child is charged.
Aibu to call the police.

Have you called the police OP, as suggested up thread, by the police officer ?
I'm really sorry for your situation, it must be extremely hard on you.💐

Rudgie47- You don't just abandon a vulnerable child on the doorstep one day, that could cause a whole lot of trauma on top of the issues faced already. Its incredibly difficult to get into specialist care provisions, its more likely he will end up being passed between multiple foster carers and homes that can't cope so move him onto the next doing more and more damage. As parents we don't ask for these disabilities but as children neither do they!. Of course, op shouldn't be attacked but to stop that happening the child needs consistent support from the professionals but he isn't getting that.

Cheeseislife - I'm also in Ireland, you son sounds exactly like my nephew except he is a bit older at 15.
My sister has been left with bruises from her son, has been threatened with knives has had parts of her home destroyed by her son, he would follow her around the house calling her names, insulting her threatening her. He would also say he wished he was dead or that she was.
Things are a bit better recently , but this is a bad time of the year with the return to school(secondary) things that have helped her - the first one was telling people what he was doing at home so family, the school, doctors (we all knew the situation at home, but now he knew we knew)
She paid for a private psychiatrist who did prescribe drugs for him (my sister had always been anti medicting him but as with any illness if there is a medication to help why wouldn't you take it?)

She also did a course with tulsa that just helped her feel less alone and gave her some tools to help everyone in the family and they have been very good to her and everyone in her family. They can also liaise with the school.
She made house rules and stuck rigidly to them - before she would feel she had to give in to keep the peace.
So lifeischeese - if you have the money I'd recommend going private and seeing a psychiatrist, the services here are dire, contact tulsa and ask for help, there should be a community liaison garda ask them to talk to him again, contact the school explain honestly what is going on at home, and yes if he was a fully grown adult male people would tell you to leave him.....

I imagine that hairyspiderleg meant Tusla, and autocorrect did its thing.

So what if she ends up dead then? If she just says that she's not having him back they will have to accommodate him in care.No question about it. Its not just about him.
OP has to put the safety of herself and the other children first.If she ends up in hospital or worse the whole family will end up looked after in care. I know 2 families where children have murdered their carers so it does happen.

OP, have you heard of therapuetic parenting - used extensively with children in the care ad adoption systems, and it works extremely well. There are many videos and books available online, as well as support groups on facebook. There is a National Association of Therapuetic Parents which can offer helplines, strategies and training.

People to look for - Sarah Naish (www.naotp.com/) ; Bryan Post (thepostinstitute.com), Christine Moers (youtube), AMber Elliot, Dan Hughes. (For Dan videos , look up P.A.C.E) and many others.

Does your child have a formal diagnosis of autism? I ask because the symptoms of ASD and children with attachment issues or trauma backgrounds behave in similar ways - children with attachment problems are often misdiagnosed. Have a look for the coventry grid, which highlights the similarity between the two - and the subtle differences.

Assuming no trauma and no issues with attachment, the techniques of therapuetic parenting work well with regular kids and kids with ASD. Its very black and white and involves shedloads of empathy and unpicking of behaviours. There no shaming of the child - which could be what he felt when you told him he had done the washing wrong.

You could also look at non-violent resistance training.

Please dont give up on him without trying a new strategy.

Rudgie47- Yes it does happen which is why ive asked about any consistent therapies, treatments they are trying and encouraged to pursue further investigations into his condition. Once he is in care it will come down to luck, what about the child?

He hung his washing out when you asked him to. OK, not to your standard but he did it. How positive were you about that, or did you just point out that he didn't do it well enough?

Please think carefully about that.

Reward the positive.

some excellent resources on non-violent resistance here.

jux rtft.

op has stated several times she praised him for his effort first.

I sympathise with you entirely and admire you for getting a 13 yr old to do something useful round the house. However you may find that following up praise with criticism is counter productive. You praised him for hanging out the washing then followed it up by saying he'd done it wrong. No point, just praise him then stop, don't add the negative follow up. He will just remember the bit where you said it was wrong.
Then, next time you need washing hanging out, remind him just before he does it of how you want it. Intervene early and re-explain if he's getting it wrong, don't leave it until he's finished then tell him its wrong, so he can get the satisfaction of doing a good job and you can get dry washing. I think with autism you have to re-explain more than usual, it's very trying and you need the patience of a saint.
If it's any consolation my son and husband are both hopeless at hanging out washing I always have to re-do it. They are OK at the dishwasher.

Poor you, OP .

I am in Ireland there are no juvenile liason officers until a crime has been committed and child is charged

Then you may need to call the Police next time. Or even now. It may be classed as "domestic abuse".

13 is still quite young, and if things get worse, you are going to be in for an even rockier time.

I think the "hanging the washing out" was probably not a great example, and its easy for posters to point out you are not helping matters by criticising or correcting him given his Aspergers.

I have a difficult teenage DS myself (not violent though) and I know how much it can mentally drain you, even make you feeling desperate and depressed (I've never been depressed in my life). I have also read the "Explosive Child" like you. Its a great book and you feel things could change afterwards, but in the end it was only of minimal help.

There is some good advice dotted about on the thread that might help you. I think you need to go down the Police path again - if you are being slapped and kicked and spat upon, when he is only 13, what will he be like at 15? 17?

I find that you have to find the one little thing that they have done right and really praise that. not mention the bad at all if you can possibly find another way to do that.

and getting help is a bloody nightmare. sometimes they only intervene when it has got to the point you refuse to have them inthe home anymore. costs a lot more money than puttinghelp in place when they are smaller.

If a child / teenager has PDA then one of the most basic strategies is to reduce demands. That isn't a parenting fail, it's a reasonable adaptation given his neurodevelopmental (difference/disorder/condition - delete as applicable so no-one is affended).

It is extremely common for that person to behave differently in different situations. For many, they use up all their emotional energy being 'fine at school' and have nothing left at home. They may come home in a state of extreme sensory or emotional agitation and be triggered by the most apparently minor events. The coke bottle analogy is often used - the child is the bottle being shaken constantly throughout the day and the parent is the one who unscrews the cap and the contents errupt.

It is impossible to give specific advice because every child / family situation is different. What is vital is to understand the child's difficulties. Strategies for children with PDA are different from most other presenations of ASD, and PDA parenting will look very different from 'typical' parenting.

Hanging the washing out may be a reasonable request, and he complied with the request . But that might just have got him to the end of his resources for coping. Being asked to redo it was the point at which the coke bottle exploded. I really doubt his reaction was about the washing alone.

Of course no one 'should' experience violence in the home, but a great many of us do and there is no simple solution. I have no idea where Rudgie thinks all these specialist childcare units are for children with complex ASD / PDA???

Blaming the child with the disability is as unhelpful as blaming the parent.

OP it sounds like you do not have the support that you and your family need. You are under unbearable strain and that is destroying your relationship with your DS. I feel for all of you.

In our area there is a Police scheme for people with communication difficulties including ASD. You register online and th person gets a personal number and identification card that they use in emergencies. The system will have details of their difficulties and best approaches for dealing with the individual. Its called Pegasus. Check to see if your area has the same. You could at least then alert the police system so if you needed to call them out because you or the family were at risk, they would be aware.

Contact your local NAS branch who can help get you support. Contact the social care team as well - they have a duty of care towards your DS and other children. In my experience, they will act more urgently if you have other children at risk. And I'm talking about additional home support or respite etc. not taking into care.

Is your DS under CAMHS? Speak to them or if not ask for a referral urgently from your GP.

Your son's behaviour is indicating that everything is not ok and school is likely to be part of the issue. The degree of violence at home may be evidence of the extent to which he is having to suppress his anxiety / stress at school. I would speak to school.

This may help
axia-asd.co.uk/evidence-autistic-people-hiding-masking-difficulties-educational-settings/

Have a look at this resource on Facbook. He has written some excellent pieces about children who need extreme control / high anxiety / PDA
www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=autism%20discussion%20page

I really hope you, your son and the family get the support you need

I do not know how I would / could cope with a violent child - it's like the last taboo

OP so sorry you have to deal with all this, although totally amazed he actually put the washing out in the first place! Any time we ask DC anything all we get is “NO”. Hope there is some helpful advice on here for you that can change your situation.

Place marking so I can come back and read all the advice later as I have a pretty similar teen who has just kicked a hole in our bathroom door and he says it’s our fault he did it because we shouldn’t have made him angry by turning the WiFi off
CAMHS are less than useless and I have no idea where else to go for help so will study all replies with interest.

Very similar to my DN she lives in a residential unit with 1 to 1 support. I think it was the best thing for her and her siblings.

it sounds horrific

sounds like a good solution, Random.

really feel for people in this situation - I'm half way there myself with problemmatic teen, and feeling very sad and sorry for myself.

“I do not know how I would / could cope with a violent child - it's like the last taboo”

I don’t know how I would cope with a violent child either. But I don’t think it is the last taboo. Especially where connected to ASD or SEN. There are far more difficult things that can happen in a family. However, if you are saying it is a taboo thing for parents to share, I agree, and it is very sad that parents do not feel they can talk about a violent child. Presumably for fear of being judged or their children demonised.

This thread has shown that many parents deal with children and teens who lash out.

OP, I wouldn’t be so sure that the fact that he is OK at school but kicks off at you means he is operating a controllable choice over his behaviour. You may Well be his ‘safe space ‘ where his anger finds outlet while he feels afraid or otherwise repressed at school.

Yes - that’s what I mean - a taboo to share and talk about

KnotsInMay no you can't talk about it, people judge you (for a belief that you are not firm enough) and judge your child and assume they are 'bad' rather than struggling. This attitude has been apparent on this thread.

It is very isolating.

You poor, poor thing! YANBU. I so hope you all can get some help.

I agree with the taboo thing yes...people judge you when they find out what your going through ..we've had relatives say ,,well he wouldn't be like that if we brought him up..in fact they didn't belive he had autism till he was ...not sure if they do even though he's an adult now,he was diagnosed at 4 ,but some relatives think it's just bad parenting..there is no easy answer how to cope with the violence.we did have .many years a go an awful awful incident,where he was attacking my other son badly ,and I had the baby in my arms ,I remember screaming for my daughter to help ,who locked herself and the baby in her room.i somehow pulled him off my son and opened the front door and pushed him outside and locked the door.then I ran to be sick in the toilet.my poor son was cut and bleeding and crying ,,my son with ASD was locked outside with no shoes on ,I was too scared to let him back in ,and the baby was screaming as well...my dh had to come home from work ,as I was too scared to let my son back in as I knew he would be angry ...

I agree with the taboo - its only when you share with friends though that you find out that they are also struggling - I was out with friends and confided that I was struggling with son who was going down a criminal path - friend one told be all about her tearaway son, his drug convictions etc and how hard it was, friend 2 told me about her twin boys when they were younger, dropping out of college, doing nothing, verbally abusing her...and friend 3, who acts like mother Tereasa, laughed and said, "did I tell you that we had the police around jimmy bought a tazer on line..." - sometimes it takes one person to have the courage to speak out.

In NVR, you need to have a strong support system, someone you can call when the violence starts to act as support and protection for you - . I think that other parents of teens can totally sympathise and might be there for you, if you ask.