To ask my employees why their DH’s aren’t pulling their weight when it comes to childcare?

[TheHoneyHunt]

So I know that my DH and me are fairly unusual in that we have a very equal approach to childcare and household chores. To be fair I wasn’t born lucky. My first H was an abusive freeloader, and I swore never to make that mistake again. However, I’ve now got so used to this way of living that I now find it normal.

I’m now lucky enough to have got to the stage in my career where I manage a large team. These are well paid jobs, paying £40k+, but do require some out of hours working.

Two of my team are on maternity leave. In discussing their return to work they both seem to be assuming that they will do all the childcare. Every pick up, every drop off. Their DH’s don’t seem to appear in the equation. As the employer of the mother, I am asked to accept all the flexibility required. And yet they are still talking about wanting to be treated as equals with their male counterparts.

If the want to be treated as equals in the workplace, AIBU to question why their childcare arrangements aren’t equal?

(I know there is an official “HR” answer to this...which will definitely go along the lines of “don’t even go there”....but what I want to know is am I being unreasonable to think this)

This is harder than talking to dh :o

Absolutely 100% illegal. Hope he gets caught doing that.

Illegal but impossible to prove.

Also come on, surely you can see that it’s shit for small businesses to have to deal the disruption wone employee out of 7 going on ML and then a return to work whereby the woman is off all the time as their DH is too important, then go off on a second ML 18 months later...

Seeingadistance
It will depend on school culture.

Generally in schools the expectation is that any emergency absence is shared. Parents share in our school quite easily unless one partner works away (from the people in friends with anyway).
In terms of coming in late/leaving early for childcare, that's not doable unless it's a request to work flexible hours not teaching first and last period, which will also mean requesting not to have a tutor group (which is a standard expectation).
If it's genuinely emergency childcare issues then most schools are fine (E.g. child has puked and childminder can't have them) but you're expected to sort it asap. If it's just 'so and so s shifts are awkward this week' then no that would be unreasonable.

In so glad I work for a bloody good company.
Both my husband and I work for the same company and benefit from flexible working.
I work part time and he works a slightly shorter working week.

In an emergency, eg child ill from
Nursery then I would have to be the one to pick them up as my husband works in a different office a fair distance away.

In the event the child wakes up poorly and can’t go to school then my husband would probably take the day off to care for them as he would be able to pick up some work from home.

I do most of the pick ups and drop offs as ive been able to negotiate hours around school times. DH does them on the days he’s not in work.

More companies need to be like ours. My job is boring as hell but I get paid reasonably for what I do. If I need to swap a day due to a childcare issue, this wouldn’t be a problem. I can book my holidays last minute (if they can accommodate) I can book holidays in hourly slots if I need to have time off for a sports day or a Christmas concert etc.

But.... I don’t take the piss and I’m a bloody good long serving employee. I’ve been in management positions myself and seen that often there are people who absolutely take the piss.

I think it’s a fair question that you’re asking op, but sadly there aren’t many companies like mine out there. So many companies are also take take take with no give. There is still this outdated view that the burden of childcare is all on the woman.

The UK has a long way to go in terms of equality and UK companies need to recognise the benefits of shortening working hours, a more flexible approach to work, for example working from home, varying working hours. Better, more affordable childcare options...

I think my home life would be more equal if I could have taken 6 months mat leave and then my OH take 6 months paternity leave.
I think if it could be split that way, it would be easier to carry on in that vein

Even as someone who's DH actually pulls his weight with the children, YABU. You don't know the ins and outs of their lives.

I absolutely hated it when I had my second DS and went part time working evenings. All I had were lots of well meaning people offering me advice on what DH and I should do for childcare etc. No one seemed to have considered that maybe, perhaps, we'd sat down and gone through it all, worked out every possible scenario and this was the best one. They're not doing it to piss you off. They're doing it because it's what works best for them.

Clearly, CeilingBird, you have not read the full thread in which I have explained why our recruitment practice is the way it is. Part of the contract is to have your passport and be ready to travel without long notice to parts of the world which may be A dangerous or B very remote without telecomms. The work requires heavy engineering experience and the stamina for 15 hour shifts, sometimes in very hot climates or alternatively in sub zero temperatures, often for eight weeks without a break, on a crew deck without much privacy.

I am as much of a feminist as anyone here, but seriously, this is not work that most of MN would choose.

And because it's international waters stuff, the UK employment regulations don't apply. Even in the UK, women are not technically permitted on commercial fishing vessels, as far as I know.

Calming I think that is the law now, shared parental leave as is the father can take whatever the mother doesn't.

YY @Artichoke18 - school always rings me. And I've got a friend whose husband was called by the school and when he answered they said "oh, it's Mr DF, don't worry, we'll call your wife" (they both worked full time).

It's the assumption that's an issue IMO. Not just employers assuming that you're going to be off all the time/not committed to work etc etc, but even within the relationship, that you've taken 9mo and therefore your job is obviously 'flexible' about that sort of thing.

I had a conversation with DH about it (who NOW out earns me but didn't before I started taking mat leave - strange that), who said that he could never share mat/pat leave because there was no one else at his level and it would harm his career progression . Incandescent is not the word.

We struggle with childcare only because DH has arranged flexible working to collect DSS fortnightly so if DD1 or 2 are ill it falls on me - even though I've already cut back to part time hours. Luckily I have a very understanding boss who I think looks forward to listening to the hissed arguments about who has the most important meetings that day while I'm negotiating with DH about who should collect the child in question.

Teaching is flexible in that you can often work fewer hours (I believe) but once you're working it's not flexible at all!

I can understand that there can be less flexibility in teaching than in some other jobs, but a previous poster said that she, rather than her DH, took responsibility for childcare because she is a teacher!

The Honey Hunt clearly works for the Daily Fail.

Lobs bomb, fails to return to site of carnage.

@thomlin that way well be the case but I doubt many workplaces would actually agree to it in reality.

XingMing, you did not say that your DH discriminates on the basis of the nature of the job itself or on the basis of legal exclusions. What you said was that he would sift out female applicants whose children were younger than secondary age, without interview, because when you only have seven staff, you don't have the flexibility to cover unscheduled absences. If a female were to apply who was recently married and therefore likely to want maternity, she wouldn't be considered.

You are back-pedalling.

My husband and I work across the road from each other. We car share (because parking in the city centre is extortionate), so we drop off at nursery together on our way to work, leave work at the same time and pick up together. I think the nursery thinks we are odd always coming in together but we love pick up time because the girls are so happy to see us

DH has flexitime and his job is probably less demanding than mine (although better paid because I am part time). I work every single night at the kitchen table once the kids are down to catch up and make sure Im on top of everything while he squares up the house. Occasionally he will work too.

Due to flexitime (and the fact that I am part time) he does most sick days that fall on a day we are both working but I’ll do it if he has something on at work that he can’t miss (unusual)

We are very lucky to be able to work it this way but I must admit I still find life pretty hard sometimes. I don’t have any time to myself and my anxiety and stress about work is through the roof.

he would sift out female applicants whose children were younger than secondary age, without interview, because when you only have seven staff, you don't have the flexibility to cover unscheduled absences. If a female were to apply who was recently married and therefore likely to want maternity, she wouldn't be considered.

How would you even do this? People don’t put their children or their wedding date on job applications.

Also come on, surely you can see that it’s shit for small businesses to have to deal the disruption wone employee out of 7 going on ML and then a return to work whereby the woman is off all the time as their DH is too important, then go off on a second ML 18 months later.

Do you think that is more or less shit than me being denied employment because I happen to have two XX chromosomes and I’m not yet menopausal?

Also, isn’t there an option to split maternity/paternity leave between both parents so each could take 6 months? Hell slap it up you if you only employ men and they all go on paternity leave for 6 months at the same time.

Shared parental leave is indeed a thing.

Criminally underused thing. But a thing nonetheless.

Xing your practices are still illegal, however I suspect much of this isn’t reality your digging a hole put the shovel down

IfIwas both are extremely shit but the only way to stop these assumptions is to question this "my husband can't cause he has a penis" attitude. In 2018 this is mental and there is a whole thread full of it!

I totally agree with you thomlin. A penis is not a parenting opt out tool. It’s the fucking tool that caused the situation in the first place!

Interesting points on this thread.

On the higher earner thing...... why should my employer suffer the childcare emergency if I'm the lower earner? If I'm paid fairly for the job I do then my employer deserves the same commitment as anyone who earns more than me.

The part time mums I work with are always expected to take unpaid leave when their children are sick. Their DHs never have.
Unpaid leave ok, but honestly, the disruption this causes with cancelled customers on the day is pants.
I think this internally and never vocalise! Not because of HR, but because it's their relationship and their decisions and not my place to get involved in their home and relationship issues. It's just their situation.

XingMing - what you are doing is still illegal, even if you send your employees to the middle of the ocean. Although I agree it is highly unlikely to be real unless you ask job applicants to put down their marital status, how long they have been married and age of children in which case your H is genuinely stupid and will be caught any day now.

Interesting question. Men still get paid more than women. The lower earner takes more of a back seat in terms of career as it makes financial sense. Pay women more and they will make work more of a priority!

Employer are often unofficially reluctant to employ women of childbearing age as they might go on maternity leave which is a vost to their business - as is losing an experienced full timer to part time.

It's a vicious circle