To ask my employees why their DH’s aren’t pulling their weight when it comes to childcare?

[TheHoneyHunt]

So I know that my DH and me are fairly unusual in that we have a very equal approach to childcare and household chores. To be fair I wasn’t born lucky. My first H was an abusive freeloader, and I swore never to make that mistake again. However, I’ve now got so used to this way of living that I now find it normal.

I’m now lucky enough to have got to the stage in my career where I manage a large team. These are well paid jobs, paying £40k+, but do require some out of hours working.

Two of my team are on maternity leave. In discussing their return to work they both seem to be assuming that they will do all the childcare. Every pick up, every drop off. Their DH’s don’t seem to appear in the equation. As the employer of the mother, I am asked to accept all the flexibility required. And yet they are still talking about wanting to be treated as equals with their male counterparts.

If the want to be treated as equals in the workplace, AIBU to question why their childcare arrangements aren’t equal?

(I know there is an official “HR” answer to this...which will definitely go along the lines of “don’t even go there”....but what I want to know is am I being unreasonable to think this)

Yes you are being unreasonable, it’s none of your business how your employees run their family life.

Just like it was none of my 3rd line managers business when I was applying for flexi time and she rang me to say I’m edging myself out of a job and that my husband needs to pick up some slack. Outrageous

100% graphista!

You don’t know their circumstances.... simple. Not necessarily equality might be just logistics

My dh did the morning school run. He can't anymore as he kept getting pressure from work to be in for 9am. He still does the "off school sick" days but I wonder for how long. It's frustrating as he accepted the job on the basis of them accommodating childcare needs. I suspect whilst HR are operating within the law, it just doesn't filter down into the attitudes of staff.

It’s not wrong to wonder about it but to question it would be crossing boundaries. There could be so many reasons from pay gaps to location and logistics etc. My children’s contacts for schools etc even in an emergency is me then my mother not my husband. Not because he wouldn’t come or wouldn’t want to be there but because he could be 30 minutes away or he could be three hours away whereas I’m 20 minutes away and my mum 30 minutes away. Also he does work which requires him to be on call versus me who isn’t and on top of that he earns more than I do so him having an hour less earnings or two hours less etc makes more of a finanacial impact to us than me working less hours. Not that I’m sure he’d be particularly good at looking after the kids by himself for long but if it was me earning more or working further away then he gave to.

Yeah it's ridiculous.
You can not give flexible working though surely?
I hate how it's just assumed women do it all. It disadvantages us hugely.
It's got to be a cultural change which will take time but we have to be actively working towards it not just pushing women into only certain roles.

@IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan
It would mean it was spread more evenly across companies and roles within companies.

It would indeed. And the likes of Xing who only employs men would have a rude awakening.

Dh's flexible working was refused and his commute was an hour away. When dc were little I wanted to do the Mum role but now they're all at primary I'm more focused on my career and dh's job has changed which enables him to parent more equally. My employer's flexibility has won them my loyalty where as dh left his employer. I hope no one judged our decision back then. I don't remember really discussing it with anyone.

I also dont see why women should have to go part time to ensure their DH's career isn't adversely impacted.

They go part time due to unaffordable childcare.

I already earn 1/3 (full time equivalent salary) less than DH. For me to put my DC into nursery for 2 days per week whilst working part time, we are £3000 pa worse off than if I didn't work. If DH went part time instead of me, we would be even worse off and that just isn't affordable.

I do 90% of the childcare for our DS. Weekends are spent together as a family, so is shared. It just makes sense for me to do the childcare.
It's none of anyone else's business, but just for context, this is DH & I :

Me: Work 9.15am - 3pm, in a school. Leave home at 8.30am to do school run then straight onto work. School holidays off work. I can drive and have a car. I work 5 miles from home/4 from DS school, I'm 15 mins away from school in case of emergency. I earn 'living wage' which is just above NMW. Boss is happy for us to make time up when emergencies crop up.

DH - Works 7.30am-4.30pm, leaves home at 6am to get train and bus to work, works 13 miles away & can't drive, takes him 1.5hrs to get to DS school, depending on times of bus/train home. Has 5 weeks paid annual leave which must include bank holidays and compulsory christmas factory shut down (1 week) - so 3 weeks for his disposal. No paid 'parental days' after childs 5th birthday (company perk), days off are unpaid after child turns 5. Unable to make time off up at another time. Gets paid double NMW.

Also in an emergency, I could be at school & seeing to my son by the time my DH got out of his work kit, got washed down and even left his building.........

But you expect your employer to suck it up
No, I have a job which allows flexible working. In fact demands it- so they have me willing to phone home to dh and say "no idea when I'll be home tonight" on a quite regular basis. They can't expect me to be flexible to suit them and for it not to go the other way.

But you expect your employer to suck it up and if you lost your job, you'd cry 'foul?'
They're sucking nothing up. They're abiding by my contract and getting a lot of short notice, often unpaid, unsocial extra hours out of me. And in return I am able to make that work for me, too. I would cry foul if I lost my job for working in accordance with my contract and agreeements with my SMT, yes.

and if you lost your job, you'd cry 'foul?'

What would views be if there were arrangements where parents could work 5 days pw for 90% pay, banking days for when dc were sick? I am not clear why anybody should get 100% pay for less than 100% attendance excepting contractual entitlements to sick pay.
This is stupid because not only do not all parents need flexibility, not only parents need flexibility.
My childfree boss is temporarily working flexible hours because her parents are ill. Flexible working benefits everyone not just those with kids.

OP, I feel for you. What's frustrating is realizing that some of the women you refer to see the job in your team as less important than their DHs. It's just the part-time job etc, the one they rely on because it's flexible and so hold onto it because of it's flexibility, but it's less important and maybe more open to taking advantage of than their DHs. So as Rainatnight said upthread, they've made a decision that it's this job that will suffer.

I run a team that is predominantly women who have taken on the designated childcare duty. I am constantly having to accommodate last minute absence, leaving early, childcare issues etc etc. We cope but it relies on me and others stepping in. It just feels like lately it's happening a huge amount and every time I'm supposed to be accepting and amenable (I'm a single parent who works FT by the way with no family about, so do understand need for flexibility - have just got good paid support systems in place).

And actually it IS your business if it is affecting yours or other's work lives.

So DP earns 3x my (decent) salary.
I very much WANT to do the majority of the childcare it’s very important to me.

I’ve purposley taken a job below my (maximum) skill set and pay grade purposley so that I can drop down the part time and have little responsibility when DC arrive (hopefully next year).

I feel my employer (very large company) understand this as I may not have spelt out my plan but I’ve definitely made reference to it in front of management...etc.

They know they have an unreasonably good candidate and in return I do expect to be able to go part time and do all child care.
I’d rather quit the job than feel obligated to hand over stuff to my DP that I’d rather be doing but I feel like it’s a fair trade between me and my employer.

I feel my employer (very large company) understand this as I may not have spelt out my plan but I’ve definitely made reference to it in front of management...etc.

They might well support you to work flexibly ( it’s good business sense to do so) but only so long as you still treat work as a priority alongside the dual responsibility of your family commitments. Low responsibility doesn’t mean low commitment you’ve still got to show up and give the job your all.

Astonishment why don’t you want the father of your children to be an equal parent? Is he happy to be relegated to a more minor role, breadwinner but with little day to day involvement in their care?

You want to do the majority of the childcare - do you think that is best for your children?

Obviously I don't know your circumstances but in most cases isn't it important that boys see an involved father and this is a positive role model for them. For girls seeing a father who wants to spend time and nurture them is very positive for their self esteem and future relationships.

An equal parenting relationship (all things being equal) is good for the children. Don't you want what is best for them even if it is not best for you?

The society we live in makes equal parenting difficult but shouldn't we at least strive towards it?

@gamerwidow

Absoloutley, I didn’t mean I won’t be committed to the role. But a part time role which is well within your skill set and you’re confident with does require less than a more demanding role with more responsibility.

In my previous career ‘part time’ often meant less money for still pretty much full time hours and we often worked 14 hour days. (Law) I’m not less committed to new role it just requires less of me.

@Artichoke 18

It’s great that the stigma of men providing equal childcare is fading but that 100% doesn’t mean it HAS to or SHOULD be that both parties provide equal childcare. It’s whatever works for a family so maybe don’t go around questioning families choices as though they’ve done something wrong or should explain themselves.

I don’t class not doing doctors/ dentist appointments, sick days and school pick ups/drop offs as playing a minor role in a child’s life...jeez (DP works 2.5 hours drive away and we would be financially worse off as a family.)

My dad was a stay at home parent growing up and did these day to day things, but honestly when I think about my childhood my mother was hands down the bigger influence in my life. So not sure why you’re equating basic domestic care to the level of influence on a child.

Op, if more fathers started picking up childcare duties wouldn’t you find an increase in flexible working requests from your male staff? Whether it’s the mother or father (or both) carrying out the childcare - employers need to accommodate it where possible.

I think the fact is that more employers need to adopt flexible working in the way they run their businesses generally. And they need to have more of a regard for their employees’ work/life balance. Some employers already do this but I think it needs to become the norm rather than the exception.

As time goes on more employees are going to have caring responsibilities/healthcare needs that need to be accommodated. We have living costs that require dual income families, an ageing population and a workforce that is not likely to retire until around 70 - employers need to get to grips with that. If they don’t... well, do you really want to see our economy grind to a halt?

Disgraceful that some PPs are blatantly operating illegal employment policies and have every sympathy where that has negatively impacted on employees.
However, it is clear that some commenters have no idea how difficult it is for much smaller businesses to operate flexible hours policies.
We operate as a team and that means the members of the team need to be in the same place at the same time for business to function.
I’m surprised that some employees do not get the relevant support network in place so that they can commit properly to the hours they are contracted for. It’s a basic lack of planning.
If they can’t commit to the hours, they shouldn’t take the job.
In my previous role as a teacher, I simply HAD to be at work no matter what hell was let loose at home. It’s not impossible, just requires forward thinking.

I'm another who doesn't think you're being unreasonable for thinking it as I often think the same, but you'll just make people feel bad if you question them.
Maybe it's a sore point in their marriage and so you bringing it up will make matters worse as you have noticed.

You're effectively asking these people "Why haven't you got a perfect life and partner like me? You obviously didn't try hard enough in school".

"I'm another who doesn't think you're being unreasonable for thinking it as I often think the same, but you'll just make people feel bad if you question them.
Maybe it's a sore point in their marriage and so you bringing it up will make matters worse as you have noticed."

I wouldn't feel bad at all? I might raise an eyebrow and ask how is that any of ops business (and then be more alert for discrimination practices) but feel bad for wanting to care for my kids and have a career? Yea, not so much.

Astonished this whole thread is about people questioning how other families divide things up. Your dh hasn’t even had the chance to see how he would like it. His long commute is not carved in stone somewhere, it could be changed (and let’s face it, it would end up being change if it was the woman).