To ask my employees why their DH’s aren’t pulling their weight when it comes to childcare?

[TheHoneyHunt]

So I know that my DH and me are fairly unusual in that we have a very equal approach to childcare and household chores. To be fair I wasn’t born lucky. My first H was an abusive freeloader, and I swore never to make that mistake again. However, I’ve now got so used to this way of living that I now find it normal.

I’m now lucky enough to have got to the stage in my career where I manage a large team. These are well paid jobs, paying £40k+, but do require some out of hours working.

Two of my team are on maternity leave. In discussing their return to work they both seem to be assuming that they will do all the childcare. Every pick up, every drop off. Their DH’s don’t seem to appear in the equation. As the employer of the mother, I am asked to accept all the flexibility required. And yet they are still talking about wanting to be treated as equals with their male counterparts.

If the want to be treated as equals in the workplace, AIBU to question why their childcare arrangements aren’t equal?

(I know there is an official “HR” answer to this...which will definitely go along the lines of “don’t even go there”....but what I want to know is am I being unreasonable to think this)

"I’m surprised that some employees do not get the relevant support network in place so that they can commit properly to the hours they are contracted for. It’s a basic lack of planning."

I've seen several threads on, and have been in the position myself of not having a support network at all! Not everyone has living, fit and healthy family available to help out. Some also have difficulty making friends (sometimes in part due to working antisocial hours), AND can't afford to pay for an employed 'support network'.

"If they can’t commit to the hours, they shouldn’t take the job." Also people's circumstances change, partners or children becoming sick/disabled, support network people becoming sick/disabled, separation/divorce, bereavement...

It's also not always straightforward to find out what hours you're actually contracted for/what's expected. You often don't find out the nitty gritty till you're already committed. I am a teacher and schools vary hugely in what they expect you to do around the core job. Morning registrations are a big issue when you have a commute to school and can't access childcare before 7.30am, as are pre-school and after-school meetings. This kind of detail is often not revealed until you actually start the job. Needless to say, most of the systems are set up by people without small kids in childcare!

Phiney - absolutely! Lack of clarity/honesty from employers re hours is also an issue.

But it works the other way too. Only recently I interviewed someone, explained the contractual hours at a professional level were 35 to 40 and in recent times cliser to 40 on a regular basis and that if there was a project ending, big case arose it was hands to the pumps. Was completely up front and was told that wouldn't be a problem. Day two am told it's a struggle to get in for 9 and person has to leave by 5 for nursery pick-ups. Nursery is open from 7.30 and closes at 7. Person lives max of a 30 min drive away.

Whilst I don't expect them in from 8-6.30, I don't see why 8.30 to 5.30/6 should be a problem. Not for £50k.

Yanbu at all

We had this with a female colleague many years back - she basically screwed up in a few ways anyway and was the first to get chosen for redundancy sadly

It’s not fair

Needless to say, most of the systems are set up by people without small kids in childcare!
Agree and it gets worse once they start primary and you're picking a school based on its early club. Secondary is another minefield because some schools don't open the doors before school starts.

@Artichoke 18

I think there’s an appropriate way to ask a question. Your comment, in my oppinion, insinuated that I was taking DC away from DP or doing something wrong by not expecting a 50/50 split of basic day to day care.

Actually DP’s commute is set in stone and if he were a women it would also be set in stone. Unless you’re familiar with NHS specialty training programmes that may be hard to believe, the NHS are one of the few who can get away with it.

We knew a chap who refused to go to his assigned year placement as it was a 2 hours commute each way (he had an 8 week old baby at home). He was softly told it was tough and if he didn’t go he’d lose his place on the programme as they had no availability elsewhere.

Whilst I don't expect them in from 8-6.30, I don't see why 8.30 to 5.30/6 should be a problem. Not for £50k.

What are her contracted hours as laid out in her contract? Where those exact hours (8.30-6pm) specified?

It's a sad reflection of society that employers expect parents to have their small children in nursery for as much of the day as is humanly possible.

7.30-6.30 is a terribly long day for a small child in nursery (and that's what you're asking of her). I would not be happy with that as the norm.

And I work in an industry where long hours are expected and people have to be flexible. However, unless there's a pressing reason for me to be at my desk before 9 or after 5, I'm not, because I want to actually see my children during the day (the audacity!) I often pick up work later when they're in bed.

Whilst I don't expect them in from 8-6.30, I don't see why 8.30 to 5.30/6 should be a problem. Not for £50k.

But there's a simple solution to that, which is make the working contract 8.30 to 5.30, not 9 to 5. It's the dishonesty of employers that builds resentment with employees a lot of the time. Just be honest and say that your working week isn't 37.5 hours (or whatever) it's actually 45/50/60. But employers don't want to do that because it makes them look unreasonable.

Nursery is open from 7.30 and closes at 7

But the hours you can use might be restricted. When my ds was small his nursery was open 7.30 to 6.30 but I could not use it for the whole of that time. I dropped off at 7.40, so had to collect by 5.40. It's not always as straight-forward as it looks.

However, I kind of agree with the basic premise of the original OP - unless and until men step up to taking care of kids, it will always be mums who look like the flakey unreliable ones.

Also

However, unless there's a pressing reason for me to be at my desk before 9 or after 5, I'm not, because I want to actually see my children during the day (the audacity!) I often pick up work later when they're in bed

This. It's about getting the work done, not whether you are present in the office or not,

Astonishment the NHS is very flexible and plenty (most ?) speciality trainees do LTFT at some time or another and it (unusually) has absolutely zero impact on career progression. If you want to sacrifice your career on the alter of some unconceived future children go ahead, but don't blame ( or allow your DP to blame) his speciality training programme. Jesse I despair

Frickin auto correct,
Altar and Jeeze

It's the dishonesty of employers that builds resentment with employees a lot of the time. Just be honest and say that your working week isn't 37.5 hours (or whatever) it's actually 45/50/60
Yes. On paper I am contracted to work 25 hours (and holiday / bonus accrues according to these hours), but it is also specified that business need may mean that I have to work up to 48 hours a week (which is the de facto position), and overtimes over 48 hours are unpaid. The reality is that the usual working week is 55 to 60 hours, apart from Christmas / summer break periods.

Silvercuckoo - that sounds dodgy/potentially illegal too!

You're working a full time job but that's not being recognised.

When you're off sick, annual leave or maternity are you treated like a full time worker or a part time one?

I also wonder if they're acting legally regarding NI and income tax if 'officially' you're only part time?

@TheHoneyHunt hasn’t come back to her thread, I see. Always makes me think today fucker.

I also notice she isn’t complaining that her male employees aren’t doing enough of the childcare etc for their families - I assume she is happy to benefit from their partners doing the lion’s share of the childcare.

Damn you autocorrect - not today fucker - goady fucker! Sheesh.

The thing that fucks me off in all this is that the ONLY adjustment I made to my work day after I had children was a 945AM start (which was actually my norm before I had children, but I had it codified after I had children because I was on a team that had a stand up after and not before). I worked until 6 or 7 each night, and the hours I was in made no difference--the environment was not customer facing and was flexible. I got bonuses for high performance each year.

I never did any doctors appointments, emergency sick days, any of it. My son prefers his father, and I am the one with a career (rather than a job). I still got mummy tracked, with restructures "around" my job both times I was on maternity leave that further isolated me and made it more difficult for me to have any future with the company. This is a company, BTW, which has a certified employer of choice for women.

I wasn't damned because I did anything to the company other than follow their policies WRT mat leave (which they offer at over the national minimum requirement where I am), I was damned by our (female, not that it should matter) head of division for having the temerity to have children at all.

I don't understand your first paragraph.

@NipInTheAir I was pointing out that actually, my having kids changed nothing at all for my employer. I had my usual start time put in writing, due to changed arrangements with my job, but in practical terms nothing changed.