To ask my employees why their DH’s aren’t pulling their weight when it comes to childcare?

[TheHoneyHunt]

So I know that my DH and me are fairly unusual in that we have a very equal approach to childcare and household chores. To be fair I wasn’t born lucky. My first H was an abusive freeloader, and I swore never to make that mistake again. However, I’ve now got so used to this way of living that I now find it normal.

I’m now lucky enough to have got to the stage in my career where I manage a large team. These are well paid jobs, paying £40k+, but do require some out of hours working.

Two of my team are on maternity leave. In discussing their return to work they both seem to be assuming that they will do all the childcare. Every pick up, every drop off. Their DH’s don’t seem to appear in the equation. As the employer of the mother, I am asked to accept all the flexibility required. And yet they are still talking about wanting to be treated as equals with their male counterparts.

If the want to be treated as equals in the workplace, AIBU to question why their childcare arrangements aren’t equal?

(I know there is an official “HR” answer to this...which will definitely go along the lines of “don’t even go there”....but what I want to know is am I being unreasonable to think this)

I once received a job application from a woman who, in the section on why she wanted the job, had written she wanted a more flexible role so she could spend more time with her husband.
I can't ever imagine a man saying the same. In fairness I have never seen anything like it before or since by either sex.

Yanbu to think it, just can't say it.
Men do get less childcare stresses.
My exh insisted he had to work 8-6 so was out the house 7-7, I worked 4d/w and slightly easier commute, but only by 10 mins or so and reduced chance of traffic due to route. He did earn twice what I did. However, I was frazzled, and given more flexibility could have progressed my career. He insisted his work times were set. Relationship broke down over time (realised he was quite controlling) and when I left, he said childcare would be 50/50 and his employer had agreed shorter hours in week he had dc now he was single parent! I was bemused! If I'd been better supported our relationship might not have floundered!!!??? Go figure?!

My final point - despite having both our work numbers and mobiles, each nursery, childminder and school has called me when a child was ill and needed to be taken home, never dh.

My husband can't drop the dc off because of his penis. He has a long commute because, well, penis. My DH has an inflexible job because of his penis.

In my experience as a team lead in the NHS ,the carer leave and emergency leave and flexibility is used by both male and female because it's available. One of the males on my team covered all sick leave for his kids as his wife got no pay if she missed a day.

Treacle I completely agree whatever women do they're in the wrong. I just find it amazing that someone sees pressure to have a career. I feel the opposite. I should work minimum hours for some pocket money an let my husband do the serious business of providing. Maybe it's regional, I am in the North East

Xing

I would imagine that any child bearing age woman who applies for such a job is fully aware of this. Unless you think all child bearing age women are unusually stupid?

Also - not all women of “child bearing age” want or can have children.

I want to be treated as equal in the workplace because that's the Equality act. Because I am awesome at what I do. And my childcare arrangements are none of your business.

But if you aren't acting equally to your peers because you're working part time/ unreliable etc, how can you expect to be treated equally?

This is what I really don't understand about the use of the "equality act". If I had one member of staff who went on maternity, took the full year, came back for 6 months part time before getting pregnant again and going off for another year, who went up for a promotion against someone who had been consistently well performing and present every day committed to their work, if there performance was the same I'd choose the later candidate. Wouldn't anyone? How can we moan and bitch about inequality, whilst simultaneously not splitting mat/pat leave, taking on all the childcare, cutting our hours, taking sick days for multiple children etc.

In my opinion, where the equality act should kick in, is to ensure that women as a whole category aren't discriminated against because their employer suspects they might do this. For example because they have children, or are of child bearing age.

And it's the fact that so many women take a whole year, then go back part time and priorities childcare over work that we have such a huge gender pay gap issue. It will take YEARS to solve, I'd hoped my daughters might stand a better chance at it than our generation but judging by the answers on this thread I suspect that won't be the case. Until we start pushing for men to take an equal role we've no chance.

My husband can't drop the dc off because of his penis. He has a long commute because, well, penis. My DH has an inflexible job because of his penis

^Well yes that's pretty much it.

But ..😂

I think part of the problem is that standard working hours are those that suit a facilitated male.

Even a man with a wife supporting him does not work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The norm is rather 9-5 or 8-7 or whatever on weekdays, with perhaps the occasional weekend appearance, which a man without primary childcare responsibilities can easily manage without burning out.

Why then, are 'part time' hours, being something less than those a facilitated male can easily offer, seen as being less valuable than full time hours. Since no-one really works 24 hours a day, surely it is obvious that we are all subconsciously or otherwise, trying to ape what a facilitated male can do.

My question is, why are these 9-5 or 8-7 weekday hours, so sacrosanct? And why are women (and enlightened men) with children, busting a gut to meet them?

My question to the OP is whether her expectations (and the expectations of bosses generally) are reasonable. I would say they are basis on the male-centric view of core working hours which simply does not work when the person in question is caring for children.

I totally agree OP

Im female, and my male DH does a lot of the pick ups, drop offs and emergency care stuff, I do some, but probably 20/ 80 in his favour. But is still see it falling to the women by default. I’ve certainly fought the school and nursery on this. They persist in ringing me first, despite the fact that I’m 4th on the list (DH then 2 sets of GPs) and I still can’t get through to them that I’m always at least over an hour away.

I was asked by a manager of a large well respected firm how he oculd promote equality in this respect, and he also happened to mention that he was leaving the meeting early to go pick up his kids from school. I said ‘that. Exactly that - lead by example, take time off to pick up sick kids, finish early on Thursday to take them swimming. Make it OK for everyone to do it.‘

Mousse I hope you appreciate all he does do for you, hampered in such a way. He works, he does the odd shopping trip even though its your job. All with a penis.

This is actually a really interesting discussion - and it's incredible the sheer number of women coming out to say, 'I take the bulk of the extraneous childcare responsibility because X, Y, Z'.

It's very revealing, and proves the OP's point completely.

I'm the same. I went flexible/part-time to be able to take the bulk of the load, however DH does step up as well (travel allowing - see, there I am, making excuses).

In all honesty, it's frustrating to see how unequal it all is in reality - however, I think it's important to consider how far we've come, as well.

Maternity leave has morphed into parental leave, for example. This is progress - we just need more men to step up to the plate.

A generation ago, things looked quite different. We're not there yet (clearly), but we have come a long way, and there's no reason to think things won't progress still further.

We just need a few more enlightened employers.

My heart bleeds for him as he struggles along with his somewhat inflexible penis

I'm sympathetic - but it's irrelevant which of the husband/wife is taking the major role in child care and not really your concern.

However, what IS relevant is this strange idea that employers nowadays somehow have to pick up the slack and offer all sorts of flexibility which may/may not be fair on other employees without parental responsibilities.

When my DC were little, I accepted that it was our (as a couple) job to ensure that childcare was sorted in such a way that it didn't impinge on our respective working lives.

This doesn't seem to be the case now. I don't get it.

My relative works for emergency services, shift work. Does loads of childcare depending on rotas over 24 hrs. Partner can work full time but has to be totally flexible to work round those shifts, don't know when they get a day off together or weekend as a family. It's tough.

Artichoke 18, you could if you were so minded, but you would need a very specific skill set to work in our company. We've never received an application from a woman for anything other than short term work experience, in almost 30 years as we headhunt rather than advertising.

I think it’s reasonable to think this but again as others have said you wouldn’t say this out loud.
As pointed out there are many reasons that women may do the majority of child care. I earn more than my husband, but after being on maternity leave my contract was open for discussion whereas my husbands company aren’t so lenient. Plus I wanted to stay with the kids.
My husband drops off to school every morning as I start before the start of school & I drop the little one to nursery. I have 2 days a week off.
As a company do you have the same equal rights for dads as you do moms. My company do but my husbands (although should) don’t. If our daughters are ill they assume I would take the time off not him.

Adnerb95, I disagree.

I don't think that there should be a problem in employers adjusting to working patterns that suit people with children. The standard working pattern is male-centric and outdated.

I do have a lot of sympathy with employers and organisations that need to do business in a world that is premised on the 9-5 availability of staff on weekdays (which suits men), but this not what we should be aiming for.

I should say 'most men' and 'most women' as of course there are exceptions to what seems to be the norm.

he would sift out female applicants whose children were younger than secondary age, without interview, because when you only have seven staff, you don't have the flexibility to cover unscheduled absences. If a female were to apply who was recently married and therefore likely to want maternity, she wouldn't be considered.

Absolutely 100% illegal. Hope he gets caught doing that.

Like a pp I find it interesting that teaching is a job which denies flexibility to fathers, but permits flexibility to mothers.

My ex husband is a teacher, and while we were together he was insistent that as a teacher he could not take any time off, go in late or leave early for childcare reasons.

Teaching is flexible in that you can often work fewer hours (I believe) but once you're working it's not flexible at all!

Because, penis.

@stealth oh god, you’ve lost me now 😂 I think I need coffee. But no, no shaved monkeys this end.