To ask my employees why their DH’s aren’t pulling their weight when it comes to childcare?

[TheHoneyHunt]

So I know that my DH and me are fairly unusual in that we have a very equal approach to childcare and household chores. To be fair I wasn’t born lucky. My first H was an abusive freeloader, and I swore never to make that mistake again. However, I’ve now got so used to this way of living that I now find it normal.

I’m now lucky enough to have got to the stage in my career where I manage a large team. These are well paid jobs, paying £40k+, but do require some out of hours working.

Two of my team are on maternity leave. In discussing their return to work they both seem to be assuming that they will do all the childcare. Every pick up, every drop off. Their DH’s don’t seem to appear in the equation. As the employer of the mother, I am asked to accept all the flexibility required. And yet they are still talking about wanting to be treated as equals with their male counterparts.

If the want to be treated as equals in the workplace, AIBU to question why their childcare arrangements aren’t equal?

(I know there is an official “HR” answer to this...which will definitely go along the lines of “don’t even go there”....but what I want to know is am I being unreasonable to think this)

So how much childcare and flexi time do you allow your male employees? Since you’re so keen on husbands sharing the childcare, I’m guessing you have some fantastic benefits and flexi time allowing all male members of the large team you manage to do half their family’s childcare?

Or you just bitch at the women on your team?

It's like name changing. All the women have hard to pronounce, silly names no one can spell so they change their names on marriage.

All the women have perfectly logical reasons why they do most childcare, the partners would but it's easier for the woman hmmm,

No OP you shouldn't ask btw.

None of your business to ask them- if it works for them then good for them!

Don't add pressure on those women by questioning about their husbands.

I pity employees that have to work for the OP. She's the one making it a male/female divide. Men ARE allowed to ask for flexibility so why should they ask for anything different to her 'male counterparts'?

No need to pity my employers, thankfully they're fabulous, working hours are largely left up to the employees to decide and plenty of blokes I work with take off early to pick their kids from school or work from home/take leave when their kids are ill. They're not twats.

I really feel for you. I used to manage a team of mums and felt the same. I felt like saying, 'hang on, how come in all of your relationships, you've made the decision that it's this job that will suffer, as opposed to your husbands'?

And picking up the slack fell to me, tbh, cos I didn't have kids. (I do now).

So, sympathies. But no, you can't say it.

Of course this is a feminist issue. I am not a manager, but I would always suggest a mother looks for (let’s face it, it will likely be the woman scoping this out while on ML) childcare that the father can do either drop offs or pick ups from, location wise.
I make a point at work of saying - if I am off for a sick child - that dh will be off with them tomorrow. I don’t believe at all the higher earner should never be off - every job is important to their employer and the employer has the right to expect anyone in a couple to share the load.

I had someone in my team, two young sons would get every call from nursery/school even though she worked two and a half days over two days, and worked 25 miles away, when her DH writhed from home less than two miles from nursery. Mind you her 'D'H also called her respectable salary 'pin money' , and his mother told her she wasn't fit to be a mother because she decided to come back to work, even though they could make do on her husband's salary. I do understand your frustration, I had a largely female team and a lot of circumstances were similar, all of the and hoc parenting fell to them even if it was less convenient and they earned more. When I go back DH will be closer to home/nursery and to some extent has more flexibility in his role during standard office hours so a lot of that will fall to him. I've said this before about housework etc but I always get comments such as 'he's so good' 'you've trained him well' which infuriate me and actually are disparaging to him as a male.

Hope you also ask your male team members why they aren't leaving early to do pick up.

Honestly I don’t think it’s surprising that a woman who has spent the last ~9 months caring for a little baby wants to make sure she can do all pick ups and drop offs even if her partner is also available.

I’m on my second maternity leave at the moment but even when I’m working I do the nursery run most of the time for logistical reasons. It doesn’t open til 8am and my DH often has to be at work, or at least half way there, by that time. The nature of his job means that he often has to work late unexpectedly and there are also unsociable hours to put in. My job is fixed hours, but much closer to both nursery and home.

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan

I invite any men in my division requesting paternity leave to a meeting about their work set up, I've held somewhere north of 400 of these meetings and can count the number of men who have taken up the offer of adjustments on one hand (that includes adjustments that have no impact on income).

If these are senior roles then is there a contractual expectation that additional hours will be worked from time to time as needed, and that some travel will be required, for these roles? If so then you would be entirely reasonable to ask how your employees will manage this and what support they have in place to enable them to perform in their roles.
I work FT as the main breadwinner & my DH does the vast majority of the dropping off / picking up / sick days. This thread is making me realise how lucky I am to have him!

You should only be declining or accepting a proposal based on business need and ability

^ exactly this. Their family dynamics are diddly squat to do with you. Are you really advocating treating them as lesser than their male colleagues due to this? Is that what this means?

If the want to be treated as equals in the workplace, AIBU to question why their childcare arrangements aren’t equal?

YANBU

And whilst it is a tricky one to raise in the office due to HR issues - you are absolutely right to raise it for consideration here.

Understanding that there are differing circumstances and scenarios, it is still food for thought for all.

I invite any men in my division requesting paternity leave to a meeting about their work set up, I've held somewhere north of 400 of these meetings and can count the number of men who have taken up the offer of adjustments on one hand (that includes adjustments that have no impact on income).

What’s your point?

When my husband asked for flexible working he was refused whilst every single female member of staff who asked for it was granted it. I don't think the problem always lies with the men themselves but sometimes with their employers. As a PP said, sometimes a man asking for flexibility gets the answer 'that's your wife's problem'

As it happens, he has a good boss and he still had his flexible working, it's just that it is 'unofficial' rather than agreed to by HR. He earns about four times what I do, but he still takes his share of things, to allow me the chance to try to close the gap in our earnings a bit.

Hmm.
I make it clear at interview that it's a full-time professional job and the contractual obligation is regularly up to 40how (£50k salary). I always ask all candidates if anything orevents them from working flexibly. I am usually told nothing. I then have people turn up who get in at 8.50 and have to leave at 4.45 to collect children from nursery, who also have an expectation that rather than take leave or unpaid leave during the 7-10 days the lo is too ill for nursery that they can work from home. No you can't with a sick baby. When I know what their dh's do and know their dh's work, for example, retail shifts with a cpl of daya off midweek I do struggle with why there can't be more flexibility.

I am always more minded to be flexible when they pay it forward rather than tell me "I had to take Wednesday morning off so I'll just take 20 mins for lunch every day next week.

I worked with DC. DH had the "big" job. I worked locally and punched under my weight for 8 years rather than take the p.

I do it because I want to. Because dh earns more. Because my job as a teacher is more secure so I'll take time off if the kids are sick etc.
Dh works away a lot and we have no family so I am the childcare person and that's what works for us

I’ve always wrangled all childcare as my husband works evenings and weekends

I’m posting again because you’ve actually given me the rage.
I manage a large team of predominantly females mainly mothers and also mostly highest eaters in family, it’s a well paid profession. I don’t blink at the flex requests and will always say yes if I can because they all give way more because they want that combo of job and life.
I have some amazing people competitors lost because they wouldn’t flex 30’minuyes
I don’t know what their husbands partners etc do
I just know they do their best job
And that makes it work

I don’t think you can ask that tbh

Well ideally 50/50 would be great, but for us it’s impossible. Dh has a 2 hour commute both ways and my work is 5 mins away. So it made sense I do pick up and drop off. We do split taking off time for when kids are sick though.

It’s not arisen in my current job but in my last job it was always me who took the time off when the kids were sick. I got paid dependants leave, he didn’t, it was a no brainer for that reason.

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan

My point is that you can offer flexible options, make it easy to access and flat out encourage flexible working where possible...it doesn't mean men will take you up on it. Any member of staff can request flexible working, men just don't seem to be interested.

On the other hand, about 40% of female staff have specific adjustments and even more make use of the standard flexitime to make life easier.

I'm at a loss as to how this can be changed.

I’m not sure why the Op is causing so much anger. She is highlighting the sexism that still exists in parenting.
gardening your post is interesting as on another thread I have seen a poster cite her husband’s job as a teacher as the reason why he can’t be off with the children. I do see echoes of the name changing threads here.

"am I being unreasonable to think this"

Yes. Yes you are.