To ask my employees why their DH’s aren’t pulling their weight when it comes to childcare?

[TheHoneyHunt]

So I know that my DH and me are fairly unusual in that we have a very equal approach to childcare and household chores. To be fair I wasn’t born lucky. My first H was an abusive freeloader, and I swore never to make that mistake again. However, I’ve now got so used to this way of living that I now find it normal.

I’m now lucky enough to have got to the stage in my career where I manage a large team. These are well paid jobs, paying £40k+, but do require some out of hours working.

Two of my team are on maternity leave. In discussing their return to work they both seem to be assuming that they will do all the childcare. Every pick up, every drop off. Their DH’s don’t seem to appear in the equation. As the employer of the mother, I am asked to accept all the flexibility required. And yet they are still talking about wanting to be treated as equals with their male counterparts.

If the want to be treated as equals in the workplace, AIBU to question why their childcare arrangements aren’t equal?

(I know there is an official “HR” answer to this...which will definitely go along the lines of “don’t even go there”....but what I want to know is am I being unreasonable to think this)

My husband is an electrician working for a company. They start at 7am and finish at 4 (so home for 5). There is zero option to start late or leave early. The option available is 'find a new job'

HTH.

Yes its amazing how many men are in less flexible, more physically remote jobs than their wives. Almost as if it wasnt a coincidence.

Ohdeargod - extremely unlikely to ever happen

It's not illegal to choose whom you want to employ, surely?

And usually, coincidentally higher paid. Its so amazing, almost like there are secret forces at work.

More fool your dh xing. Some of my best staff have been women with small children. Some of the most useless have been the ones with wives who run the family

Quite often, we send people to the other side of the world, to remote and dangerous locations. There's no chance of getting back for an unscheduled school run pickup or not within 48 hours.

Xing

No, I wouldn’t ban them. Regulate them more strictly certainly.

I would never ever work for one again. A larger company, however shit practice might be in one part of it, will have centralised HR and ER depts. Something I consider vital when applying for jobs, after my small company experience. I would advise anyone I know the same.

Go to it Semper!

Totally understand your point of view OP. Until women start demanding and expecting more of their partners nothing will change. The fact that so many don't do so makes me wonder how much they really want equality in the workplace. DH earns more than I do (by about 25%) but does half of all nursery runs, we both work four days per week and we pretty much alternate taking time off for the children's sickness. We are equal partners and I am constantly surprised and saddened by how rare this seems to be. I adore my DH but don't consider myself 'lucky' as such as I wouldn't be with someone who expected me to do everything, so I do feel I have something to do with the situation I've ended up in.

Yes there are always reasons why one partner may be better placed to pick up the load but I find it odd how it's 99% of the time a reason why the man can't...

When DC’s were at nursery and then school, DH did the morning drop to nursery/breakfast club and I collected from nursery/after school club. Many of our friends operated a similar scheme so that we could both continue with our ft careers but also share the drop offs/collecting.

Recently at work I’ve had two requests for flexible working - one from a female member of the team and the other from a male. Both related to childcare responsibilities. Due to business and operational reasons, the females request was turned down and the males approved.

And Xing

Your husband is practising sex discrimination with some age discrimination on the side.

Presumably you would take a dim view of an employer who binned applications from people with obviously Indian names? And perhaps not be so keen to post about it on the internet if it was a practice your husband took part in, then justify it with “surely as an employer you can pick who you want”.

Yes you can choose -fairly. Not based on prejudicial assumptions.

Xing it is very much illegal to decide who you want to employ based on anything other than their professional abilities.

And just to point out, OP is posting about TWO women in a 'large team'. It's hardly the majority. It is clearly none of the OPs business to ask where the DH is in all of this, and to do so would be twatty. If the flexibly leave can't be accommodated, don't accommodate the request, simple as. I'm pretty sure they've considered their own circumstances without their line manager getting all haughty and asking questions. What response dies she expect? "Fuck, never thought of asking OH, silly me"

@starutopia well he does have an option then. As a qualified electrician he could look at going self employed. How many women do you think make their situation work for their families by making changes instead of saying 'this is how it is and nothing can change'? If as many women did that as men do, families wouldn't function.

It's not illegal to choose whom you want to employ, surely?

It will be better for all when middle class white men can go back to only employing other middle class white men, after all, they should be allowed to choose who to employ, with no scrutiny whatsoever.

I'm the higher earner by a fair bit and also have much more flexibility than my DH, I also have the family car for my (shorter) commute as I'm pregnant and don't want to cycle at the moment (he runs to work six miles away) so I do nursery and grandparent drop offs (it doesn't matter what time I arrive as long as my work gets done and I do my hours).
He's a teacher, so has total flexibility for 1/4 of the year in holidays, but it does tend to fall to me for the other 3/4. Only one conflict (with him!) on a toddler sick day so far in eight months back at work (there will be more).

We both have slexiblw working patterns, and jothbof is made it clear when requesting them that responsibility was shared and that we were both asking for flexibility to be fair to both employers.

We alternate who has time off when DS is sick, whoever has more flexibility that day.

Both of us have been promoted since having a child.

I work in a traditionally male dominated occupation, although less so now. Plenty of men have flexible working patterns. However in my experience women are more likely to ask for them. I know a fair few couples who both work for our organisation and only the woman has flexible working as she takes responsibility for childcare. One good friend I asked why and she said "Oh, he won't change his pattern, I have to do it."

*flexible

Maybe all these men who out earn their partners are capable because they have no childcare duties and employers view them as such. The gender gap, just because employers are not allowed to ask questions doesn’t mean they do not think about them leading to lack of recruitment and promotions.

The thing is, my DH is self employed and would potentially lose out on between £250-500 if he took a day off to look after a sick child.
I on the other hand can take annual leave, or use some of the billion hours worth of TOIL I am owed.
So there is an unfair burden on me to take the time off. But as a family it is what we decided. For what it’s worth DH will cover the slack if given enough notice or he can rejiggle things.

@stealthpolarbear
I wouldn’t say my employer is inconvenienced by me picking up more of the slack (well not so far) but more I don’t have the time or energy to give more than my contracted hours. Culture of where I work is very 9-5, little over time. So I don’t feel too guilty. More frustrated that ideally I would do more but don’t have time.

I am honestly not saying this to be goady and it may be my sleep deprivation meaning I’m not fully understanding your point - are you saying that the woman who takes on more of the slack and inconveniences their employer because their OH can’t / won’t is entitled - i.e assumes it’s acceptable by the mere fact they are women? Or the employer needs to suck it up and it’s their right..,

I do understand OP view. However what needs to happen / how can it be more equal? It’s been eye opening having a child and listening to new parent friends and their experiences of divvying up the childcare eg DH refusing to help change a nappy as they were busy getting ready for work whilst mother is feeling sick and struggling. How can you get someone to do more, what if they don’t - just leave? I think until employers make us easier for men to take on more of a role / society finds it more acceptable and expected not much will change.

There are lots of small companies with work that isn't nine to five in comfortable easily commutable locations. Quite a few people like to do non-automaton jobs outside of the mainstream. But their partners, male or female, need to accept what they do. Most of the people who are interested in that work are male. You might not like being in a relationship with someone whose work life doesn't mean they are at home to share childcare... but I assure you, they are handsomely compensated for needing a bodyguard to go to and from work.

I am a high earner. I also choose to be the primary care giver for my DC.
If I was questioned like this I would be offended and looking for another job immediately (easy to find with my experience/qualifications).

However I would not expect any employee male or female to be asked about their OH (who may or may not be in the picture). It sounds to me like you are not supporting women employees, whilst at the same time not encouraging men employees to work flexibly/take time off. Feminism in 2018...

Interesting question.
You also have men (fathers?) in your team who aren't asking for the same flexibility ..? Presumably because their partners are taking on that aspect?

So when you say 'why is it always the women's employer who carries the can?' I'm assuming you are cool with the employers of your male team members partners 'carrying the can' so that your male team members aren't having to come to you asking for flexibility in their roles so they can fit around childcare issues?

Speaking as a part-time working mum of three under 6 I can honestly say that juggling responsibilities with poorly kids, school engagement activities and pick ups/drop offs etc is bloody hard work. But it is a necessity not an excuse to slack off. Why shouldn't they be treated with as much respect as your male colleagues who's dedication is possibly the result of another woman's career sacrifice?

In my experience, The more flexible you are, the more flexible you'll find them to be.