To ask my employees why their DH’s aren’t pulling their weight when it comes to childcare?

[TheHoneyHunt]

So I know that my DH and me are fairly unusual in that we have a very equal approach to childcare and household chores. To be fair I wasn’t born lucky. My first H was an abusive freeloader, and I swore never to make that mistake again. However, I’ve now got so used to this way of living that I now find it normal.

I’m now lucky enough to have got to the stage in my career where I manage a large team. These are well paid jobs, paying £40k+, but do require some out of hours working.

Two of my team are on maternity leave. In discussing their return to work they both seem to be assuming that they will do all the childcare. Every pick up, every drop off. Their DH’s don’t seem to appear in the equation. As the employer of the mother, I am asked to accept all the flexibility required. And yet they are still talking about wanting to be treated as equals with their male counterparts.

If the want to be treated as equals in the workplace, AIBU to question why their childcare arrangements aren’t equal?

(I know there is an official “HR” answer to this...which will definitely go along the lines of “don’t even go there”....but what I want to know is am I being unreasonable to think this)

I was a single mum when my DD was primary school age. The only reason I 'made it' professionally because I paid a nanny to pick her up from after school club several days a week and she went to stay with my parents for the entirety of the Summer ad Xmas holidays. Easter holidays she came on holiday with me.

So hmmm, I relied on another two women to help me.

I missed her like fuck when she was away but it has paid off massively and I was a great role model to her.

You are right of course.

For us it's the opposite. DH does every pick up and drop off and because he works near home/nursery while I have a 90 min commute each way. It's usually the logistics. And shielding the higher earner (we both actually earn similar so that's not an issue).

The way I approach it is from the other direction - when men I manage have children, I ask them about flexible working arrangements and encourage them to make an application. I talk about childcare commitments with all of my staff and make clear that we can always discuss accommodations. I also make clear that I split pick ups and drop offs equally with my DH.

Graphista I don't own it or decide wages. I'm a deputy manager and single mum and I make 21k, contracted to 40 hours but regularly do 60 to cover the staff/their kids sickness so please don't make out like I'm making loads of money.

My ex just refused point blank to do any drop offs or pick ups
He left early and got back after pick up time on purpose to ‘prove’ that he couldn’t possibly do it
Plus apparently it’s ‘women’s work’ and ‘you chose to have the kids’

Total abdication of responsibility

Op you cannot possibly know the internal workings of someone else’s relationship

I didn't! I said the owners do. But as a manager even a deputy manager you have the ear of your employer and could advocate for better wages including for yourself. Sorry to tell you you're not paid much more than I was as a shift supervisor 20 odd years ago.

Yanbu at all op.

My ex employers questioned why I was DS’ primary contact and why I took him to all of his specialist appointments and not DH.

She’s an ex employer for a reason.

ivenoideawhatimdoing that’s a perfectly reasonable question for your employer to ask.

This thread is so interesting. I find it especially fascinating how much more women are prepared to ask of their employers than their husbands

I am with the PPs who simply don't believe it's chance that men have all the inflexible jobs. Women, please stop facilitating this shit and demand more for yourselves and your children or you are setting a horrible example for them.

Thank you to this thread for reminding me how unappealing returning to work for someone else is. Now to start working on that business idea...

I refuse to do more than 50% childcare as we both work full time. If DH didn’t do his share of pick ups the children would be left at childcare until he stepped up and collected them. I find you have to be completely zero tolerance about this.

Do you say to your male staff why are they not asking for reduced hours and flexibility so they can help their wives who work somewhere else so things are more equal??? No, you just want to question the women??

@ministerforcheekyfuckery
I think your point about your husbands job is very interesting - realistically, I can understand what you mean. But to be honest, I do wonder why your DH stays in such a shit job- can’t be just get one elsewhere?

I find it really confusing that these so called high powered high earning men have so little choice and control over their careers. I wouldn’t dream of staying in a shit job that didn’t fit in with my family (and I don’t have any flexible working- but if I want to go to sports day etc it’s no problem

Do you say to your male staff why are they not asking for reduced hours and flexibility so they can help their wives who work somewhere else so things are more equal???
As it isn't impacting on the business then it's a non question. Maybe they have full wrap around care, maybe they have parents or in laws who help.

I would imagine the OP wouldn't care one bit if a women did all the pick ups and drop offs if they were at their desk on time and did the job. I equally don't think they'd mind that much about trying to fit in sports days or nativity. Probably do care if some members of staff are always wanting to come in late, leave early, have a day here or there.

It's not the role of the employer to get involved in things that don't affect the company . It is their business if their business is affected.

The people who should be speaking to the men are their wives and partners.

none of your business to be honest

I can see where you're coming from, OP, and I do feel women should consider their jobs as part of planning their families. Of course family comes first but some do abuse their employment.

See, this is part of the problem. Where are the men when the discussions are happening about planning their families? Are they considering their jobs too?
There were two people at conception, or do men's obligations to raising a child end as soon as he ejaculates? Our whole thinking has to change. I also agree with those asking what op is doing to challenge the male employees. Women continue to take a disproportionate amount of responsibility, blame and guilt where careers, jobs and raising children are concerned.

Sore subject.

My ex wont do anything to help and things weren't much better when we were together. He actively avoids helping because he is a dick. To the point where he was recently at my house and I still had to get a baby sitter because i needed to work late. So him and the babysitter were in the house at the same time. If I had tried to get him to do it he would have probably gone out just to be unhelpful.

Why does he act like this? Apparently because he never wanted children. I got pregnant by accident and its all my fault for keeping DD and ruining his life. Mind you, he didn't tell me this at the the time when I got pregnant.

Does my employer know this? Of course not, none of their business. Besides, if I had to vocalise this in a work situation I'd probably burst into tears.

So I prefer to just keep stum and do the best I can at work.

Really OP, mind your own business

I think your point about your husbands job is very interesting - realistically, I can understand what you mean. But to be honest, I do wonder why your DH stays in such a shit job- can’t be just get one elsewhere?

As I said in my post, even if he was to leave and go to work for another company it wouldn't be any different because it's a cultural thing within his profession. It's the same in a lot of professions that are very competitive and male dominated. It's not just a case of it being a "shit job", that's very simplistic. The work itself is interesting and varied, he likes his team and most importantly it pays our mortgage, so he's not in a position to just throw his toys out of the pram and walk away from his career because there are some outdated attitudes within the profession that he doesn't agree with.

Thing is, I’m a professional and I think the whole point of being a professional (say solicitor, accountant, chartered surveyor etc) is that you have all this choice available to you. I could work for an investment bank but I could also work for a local authority of the NHS. It would still be highly paid whatever, although obviously the council would pay less than the bank but then I’d get the flexibility and other benefits that men seem often unable to take.

It just doesn’t really make sense to me. The whole point of a well respected profession is to give you choice, freedom and security.

Well, that sounds great glint but surely you must realise that not everyone is in that position.

This is a particular bug bear of mine. There are so many women sacrificing career progression because their husbands job is more 'important'
I managed someone once who actually said to my face that she wouldn't ask her DH to pick up any additional childcare just so she could do her job .....this was for an event where she was required to swap her day off and she was given 6 months notice. I also think she used to use her dependants days as additional holidays but could never prove it!!
I always found it frustrating as a manager.

Well I’m wondering if they really are, to be honest. Why does it seem like so many men are stuck in particular roles or organisations?

Yes I bet they have flexibility and autonomy in General. If they wanted to take a long lunch or play golf. But when it comes to picking up children they aren't allowed to leave before 5,like kids at school

And how are these outdated workplaces every going to change if no man is prepared to challenge them?
Do you think it was plain sailing for the women who stood up for equal pay and maternity rights?