Friend going out with a loser

[snowy2000]

A very close friend (friends since young children, now in our mid-thirties) is going out with a guy that I think is going to disappoint her, long term. She’s one of those people who’s always preferred to be in a relationship, and before this relationship, was seeing someone who was incredibly charming, funny, clever.. had a bit about him, if you know what I mean. He also happened to come from quite a lot of money, not that money makes you happy though. They drifted apart, and ended things amicably, and She’s now been going out with her current fella about three years. Without wanting to sound overly mean, he’s just not very dynamic. Shy, a bit unapproachable, hard work to chat to (although she clearly gets on very well with him and loves him dearly – she’s hilarious so I guess there must be more to him than meets the eye). He’s got an average manual job with limited prospects. Won’t ever earn really enough for a mortgage (not in London anyway) again not the be all and end all but i know she is keen to get on the property ladder (she earns more than him) .He doesn’t strike me as being that bright. He also suffers from bad anxiety and bouts of depression, and smokes a lot of mariguana (I think he smokes every day which clearly exacerbates his issues). They have discussed marriage (more her pushing for it) and I think he’s pushed back / bought time by saying that he doesn’t like a fuss, if they do it one day, it’ll just be the two of them type thing. I know she also wants children one day but I worry that the clock is ticking on that one (nearly 36), and I can’t see this guy feeling “ready” to have kids any time soon – he has so many issues of his own. Without going on too much, my question is, do I / her other friends say anything to her? I would hate for her to miss a potential for a husband and kids (which is what she frequently says she wants), but at the same time, she is always going on how much she loves and adores this guy (but we think she does too much for him, bends over backwards, and not sure what she gets in return). Don’t want to unnecessarily upset or cause hurt but we think he will let her down. Your views are appreciated and thank you.

Seriously? You need to ask? If you want her to hate you, whether you turn out to be right or wrong, then sure, tell her. Otherwise keep it shtum.

You sound like a huge snob. Leave them to it. Find somewhere else to stick your beak.

I can see why you think it's snobbery but it really isn't intended that way. More concerned that she will end up unhappy in ten years because she has wasted years now with a guy who I don't think will marry her, or have children with her. I've been out with wrong'uns before, and only realised they were wrong for me after I had broken up with them (but friends would say things like '"we always knew he wasn't right for you" type thing). part of me wishes they would have been honest at the time but appreciate this is easier said than done and honesty can cause unessary hurt and upset. Was merely reaching out to see if anyone had experienced anything similar, no need to be rude!

This is ridiculous - you say she loves and adores this guy?!

It doesn't matter what he earns, and despite what observations you think you have made, the fact of the matter is, you aren't in their relationship.

You can think whatever you like, but you don't know that he will let her down, and he hasn't for the past three years.

Sounds like a bit of deflection going on here OP - I am wondering what your own relationship status is?

You may have your friends best interests at heart, but you will destroy your friendship if you go putting your cards on the table, and are at risk of overstepping a friendship boundary.

Mar-Iguana 😂😂 just got an image in my head of a big lizard with a joint

Also: does it change things if it were say, your own child? e.g. if my child was going out with someone objectively wrong for them, I would be honest. But every situation is different. The motives here are well intended and only bourne out of love for a friend.

She will definitely end up miserable because of this man regardless of whether they have children or not. Unfortunately I don't think that there is anything you can do for her beyond bekng there to help her when shit hits the fan.

The feedback is clear, and it is very unlikely that I will say anything to her. But I feel that she is in denial - he lets her down all the time but she won't admit it to herself. She says she loves him but she gets stressed and sad (and cries to her friends) at his constant smoking and anxiety, she wishes he was more ambitious. But as you all suggest it is up to her to choose her path and you are right, it would probably damage our friendship irreparably if anything were to be said.

i was that friend. my friends told me. I ignored them and spoke to them less and less.
we all make our own choices in life

I think it doesn't matter whether its a friend or your own child. If you want to be supportive then you need to let her live her own life and be there for her if it doesn't work out.

Things didn't work out with the incredibly charming, funny, clever and rich guy either, so these all these "faults" you mention aren't an indication of relationship success.

You sound pretty condescending towards her, how perfect is your relationship?

I think you are right, whatevenisababy - whatever the outcome, we will all be there for her. And I suppose you have to let people make their own choices. I just know from past experience that I have been blinded by infatuation and only in hindsight seen how wrong I have been about certain exes. Rebeccasfront - I'm in a really happy, balanced, supportive relationship. I want that for my friend. The evidence suggests that she is not actually being supported by this guy (emotionally or in other ways) and I don't mean to sound condescending. I think you sound a little bit chippy yourself.

I know exactly what you mean. I had this exact situation with a close friend. However she asked me one day what I thought of him and for a moment I considered glossing over it and then thought well she's asked me so the least I can do is be honest. She wasn't happy. I said the same as you that he didn't seem very dynamic or ambitious and I think she was quite offended, she responded very defensively and I was a bit taken aback.

Anyway, they split up not long after and she's now very happy with a guy who does have something about him.

Upshot I think is unless she asks, say nothing. If she seems unhappy, you could tackle it then, but don't start by saying you think her fella is a loser (which it sounds like tbh).

Thank you AskMeHow, that is good advice. It kind of partly boils down to it being a terrible shame that fertility drops of a cliff edge after 35. If that weren't an issue I wouldn't be posting here.

So basically a man is only good if he earns a lot. I hate to say this as i genuinely dont like to point out peoples poor traits think you are very very shallow.

He is not in a high flying job = a loser, he is shy / social awakard = he is a loser, You think he is not the brightest person in the world = he is a loser. All these judgements are wrong and points that you are in fact a not very nice person.

The only point you are making that has any merit is drug taking but that is only minor.

How about you butt out of her life, as long as he is not abusive and your friend is happy butt out.

So what that she earns more then him? (femisim wanted woman to paid the same / able to earn mroe then men) So you think a man is only not a loser if he earns more then the female partner? So you narrow down the pool massively. Shame on you, its a good world were people look beyond personal means so what if the woman earns more then the man there is nothing at all wrong with that.

Unless you live in the 1950s and think men should always earn more then woman otherwise they are not a man.

Please read your OP back to yourself and see how shallow you are sounding and then give your head a wobble and be happy that your friend is happy.

There's some horrible responses here. I think you're being very unfairly castigated here OP. Lots of people focusing on the money aspect. It's obvious to me it's not really about money, it's about how this guy treats your friend and he appears to have no motivation to achieve anything in his life.

My friend I was talking about earlier, she's now insanely happy with a guy who's a musician. He'll never be rich, but he's funny, v talented and treats her well and that's all you want in the end.

Thank you AskMeHow - I think I have been pretty clear that I don’t think money is the be all and end all – in fact, I think it can sometimes make people very unhappy. I also have been clear that home ownership isn’t necessarily the be-all-and-end all. I am also all for women out-earning men. But when my friend moans at us in frustration that her boyfriend won’t get off his arse and try harder to at least match her in terms of his contribution to their lifestyle, I think it’s OK to state the facts here, and give you all some context. Also – what on earth is wrong with being funny and clever? Why would you think I’m a snob for bigging up those qualities? Are you saying that you would NOT want that in someone, a friend or partner? Why is ambition a dirty word? Honestly I feel like some of you are really easily offended, and I’m a bit taken aback to be quite honest.

I myself live modestly, am not hugely materialistic, but my friend IS and is not afraid to admit it. We don’t judge her for wanting to own a house or have a husband (indeed, lots of us are not fussed by marriage).

She goes out with someone who is unmotivated and smokes too many drugs. I am not a bad person for not wanting that for my friend. Whether it is my place to say anything is the question I am asking, and I have had clear feedback.

Please don’t talk to me like I am an awful person. I am just trying to do the right thing.

Also one other thing to add - I am not a prude about the odd spliff. I have the odd one myself. But smoking £20 worth of weed every day is a BAD THING and not good for anyone's mental health or bank balance.

I was going on here to read how abusive, or awful he was, but he sounds nice, just not your standards. If he makes her happy and treats her well, than all is good.

Are you married OP? I feel sorry for your husband.

I have a friend who is a dr and has always be an extrovert with loads of friends and exciting hobbies.
She’s married to a shy, low achieving bloke who I can barely talk too.
About 3 years in I thought the same as you. But they’ve been married 6 years now and she still raves about how much in love she is and has never moaned about their relationship.
It was my DH who pointed out there are plenty high achieving me married to women who could never afford the mortgages on their own.
Each to their own. Some people need the opposite to balance out.

does it change things if it were say, your own child? e.g. if my child was going out with someone objectively wrong for them, I would be honest

You're not her mother.
She's an adult.
Mind your own, OP.

Thanks hamburgers, that's really nice of you to make such a statement when you've never met me or don't really know the first thing about me. I am happily married, thank you, to a funny and clever man. Perhaps you are not. Anyway.

This guy is not physically abusive, no, or at least, not to my knowledge ( I can't for one second imagine that he is). But I think my friend feels drained by him, his lack of energy, his non-committal attitude towards having kids and marrying her. She goes from saying how much she loves him to moaning about feeling stressed that she has to support him so much.

I am surprised that you seem to think I am somehow a bad person for thinking, well actually, that doesn't sound like a great set up for my friend who openly wants a husband and kids.

The guy is obviously not a bad person - but my friend is such a catch - and could do better. That might seem blunt, or snobby, or mean of me to you, but I am being honest.

None of you (apart from AskMeHow) seem willing to admit that being funny or clever or friendly or not always stoned are desirable traits; what's wrong in wanting that for your good friend?

Thanks Flashingbeacon, that's interesting, and good to hear. Sounds like for whatever reason they have good balance.

More generally, I think kindness is really the best trait you could hope for. And whilst someone can be kind in the day to day, is it kind of this guy to fob my mate off by saying he'll 'maybe' be ready for marriage and kids one day? I just hate the thought that she will miss out on having the kids she says she wants because he's 'not ready yet'. He's pushing 45. When will ever be.

This is getting a bit tense. Would ask you all to be a bit kinder too, in a way.