Friend going out with a loser

[snowy2000]

A very close friend (friends since young children, now in our mid-thirties) is going out with a guy that I think is going to disappoint her, long term. She’s one of those people who’s always preferred to be in a relationship, and before this relationship, was seeing someone who was incredibly charming, funny, clever.. had a bit about him, if you know what I mean. He also happened to come from quite a lot of money, not that money makes you happy though. They drifted apart, and ended things amicably, and She’s now been going out with her current fella about three years. Without wanting to sound overly mean, he’s just not very dynamic. Shy, a bit unapproachable, hard work to chat to (although she clearly gets on very well with him and loves him dearly – she’s hilarious so I guess there must be more to him than meets the eye). He’s got an average manual job with limited prospects. Won’t ever earn really enough for a mortgage (not in London anyway) again not the be all and end all but i know she is keen to get on the property ladder (she earns more than him) .He doesn’t strike me as being that bright. He also suffers from bad anxiety and bouts of depression, and smokes a lot of mariguana (I think he smokes every day which clearly exacerbates his issues). They have discussed marriage (more her pushing for it) and I think he’s pushed back / bought time by saying that he doesn’t like a fuss, if they do it one day, it’ll just be the two of them type thing. I know she also wants children one day but I worry that the clock is ticking on that one (nearly 36), and I can’t see this guy feeling “ready” to have kids any time soon – he has so many issues of his own. Without going on too much, my question is, do I / her other friends say anything to her? I would hate for her to miss a potential for a husband and kids (which is what she frequently says she wants), but at the same time, she is always going on how much she loves and adores this guy (but we think she does too much for him, bends over backwards, and not sure what she gets in return). Don’t want to unnecessarily upset or cause hurt but we think he will let her down. Your views are appreciated and thank you.

Thanks hamburgers, that's really nice of you to make such a statement when you've never met me or don't really know the first thing about me.

On the contrary, your OP says a lot about you and your values.

None of you (apart from AskMeHow) seem willing to admit that being funny or clever or friendly or not always stoned are desirable traits; what's wrong in wanting that for your good friend?

No one is disputing this, but that's not what you've said in your OP really is it? You're saying your friends partner lacks ambition and is shy and doesn't earn anywhere near what she does. Humour/being funny is very subjective wouldn't you agree? Maybe your friend thinks her partner is hilarious.
Not everyone can be clever, we can't all be the brightest crayons in the box. Also, a lot of stupid people earn big money. Look at the idiots making a killing from being on Love Island.

Maybe your friend believes that she is also in a "happy, balanced, supportive" relationship @snowy2000.

Nothing good will come of you telling her that you think her boyfriend is a loser. You'll lose your friend and she'll just cling on to her boyfriend even tighter. Just be there if it goes wrong.

Only managed to read about half of it and you just sound like a dickhead op

I'm not going to say anything to her unless she specifically asks me. I also agree that high earnings don't necessary correlate with intelligence. And I agree that humour is subjective. But this guy is utterly charmless. I guess we are all just surprised that she is with him. Voicing this stuff on here is very different to how we'd ever approach it in reality, if we ever did, but I think it probably won't come to that. I'm sure people on here feel able to speak more openly about stuff than they would to their friends sometimes. Kinda thought that was the point.

But as others have implied, opposites attract, if she is happy, then so are we, we just question if she is kidding herself because she can't face being single. I know I've stayed in relationships that weren't good because I couldn't face the thought of being on my own. I'm sure lots of people can relate to this. You're nearly 36, and the thought of having to get yourself on a dating app fills you with dread, and it's hard to meet people organically because London can be a lonely city. And all your mates are coupled up with kids. And you want that too, and the guy you're with keeps saying "yeah, maybe one day, we'll talk about it another time" type thing... and alarm bells start to ring, if not for my friend yet, then certainly for me. That's pretty much all i'm saying. I've now been thoroughly slated. Admittedly my subject line was provocative but I did want to get a response. And I still think the guy is a loser.

The alarm bells for me are the non-committal deffering about the future of the relationship and the regular cannabis use. The financial side is not an issue in itself, but it does sound like he's coasting along having a nice time off the expense of her effort.

If she is venting about him and is only really with him out of habit or mis-guided optomism, you might get away with some questions for her to think about the reality of the future and what she really wants. You can't tell her that he's a loser though, well you could, but she might stick with him not you.

You can’t really do anything about this, all you can do is be there as support for your friend if things don’t work out.

If she asks you your opinion on her relationship then you could tell her your reservations about the bf, but you have to be aware that if she chooses to remain in the relationship after you’ve had your say, it will have repercussions on your friendship.

Personally I am no fan at all of one of my closest friends’ husbands. But I keep my mouth shut because I want to preserve the friendship.

Thank you, Jynxha and May Fayner, for your reasoned, calm responses. Agree with what you've said.

None of my friends or family were happy with my choice or partner. They told me. I was very offended and hurt and didn’t listen. I doubt many people would consider breaking up with the person they are in love with because of advice given to them by friends so I don’t think you should offer it. Next time she is having a moan though, you could help her to see the issues more clearly that she is not happy about herself. And then you might get the opportunity to ask her if she is sure she is happy. I definitely don’t think you should pass judgement on his personality though, some of your reservations do sound quite personal and subjective.

This doesnt make for great reading for me. I have anxiety and depression so bad that i cant work im also shy and im sure some could say charmless on first viewing. I am not looking for a partner right now as i dont feel right mentally for it, but i can say that in the right company and when i feel comfortable i can make jokes and make people laugh, if he doesnt see you a lot or gets the feeling these are your views towards him then in his position i wouldnt be the most charming either. I would withdraw, thats probably what he's doing you may be making it more obvious than you realise or if he suffers bad from anxiety he may be more worried about it anyway.

My friend is also in a relationship with a loser. Nothing we can do about it. Continue your friendship as normal and keep your mouth shut unless asked but even then, be careful what you say.

In my case, my friend nearly split up with her partner and confided in me. I told her she was doing the right thing as he's a loser anyway. She got back with him! Very awkward!

Your friend is clearly making a huge mistake if she wants marriage and children but she's an adult and surely must have thought of the risks of staying in this relationship. If she doesn't get married or have children then that is a consequence of decisions she has made to stay in the relationship. She is responsible for her life as harsh as it sounds.

Of course, these are only my opinions; have never denied that. I might not love his personality - it's not really my business, as you say - and if my friend loves his personality, good on them - but I would be sad for her if she ends up wasting years with someone who won't commit to marriage or kids. The marriage thing is less problematic really but if you want kids, it's not something to take for granted, or assume that he'll come round to the idea one day. There really isn't time to lose at that age (and I say this having gone through several rounds of IVF myself, ultimately successfully, but it was partly because we got started on it in quite good time). If someone won't have an open, honest, upfront conversation with you about kids, then you might end up disappointed. It's her life, I will be there for her whatever happens. I just think she forgives his vagueness about the kids thing because she likes being in a relationship. And a lot of you have all jumped down my throat and insinuated that I have bad values. Ah well!

It's not bad values per se.

It's the controlling "I know best" attitude. Along with the "I have a man and you must obviously not have one because you're being mean" teenage superior up your own arse outlook that makes me agree with grated

look; I felt on the defence as the implication from some of the commenters on here seemed to be that I must somehow be unhappy and / or lacking in my own life to have such a "controlling" view on my friend's choice in partner. I am sorry if I have offended anyone - none was intended - but wanted to try and make clear that I am not coming at this from an unhappy-in-myself perspective. Never posted on here before but may think twice before doing so again. Feels like people are quick to judge and it brings out a snappy / defensive side in me which is not nice. I am sure we all want the best for our friends, but you can't please all of the people all of the time, and a lot of you seem rather displeased with my views / comments. I'll get back to my high horse :-)

OP you have my sympathy, my friend has been with a similar loser for 8 years now 😢 It makes me sad, she could be with someone who is actually committed and not giving her the run around. One thing that chimed with me was you said your friend was ambitious.
My friend is also extremely ambitious, highly motivated and loves to be in control. Over the years I've come to see that in a way she refuses to walk away as she is not used to 'failing' and she sees him and his man baby, stoner, getting on for 40, ways as another project. She is always trying to help him progress up the career ladder (which he doesn't seem to want). Does this ring any bells?

I also think you've been push back on a bit too hard snowy. It's hard - you feel you have a duty to your friend but you also have to respect her ability to make relationship decisions for herself.

My biggest concern would be the cannabis use. The trend here in the USA is toward legalization, both for medical and less commonly, recreational use. It is not a benign drug. Nothing psychoactive is completely without harm. The effects of chronic heavy use of cannabis on mental function are well documented:

An Evidence Based Review of Acute and Long-Term Effects of Cannabis Use on Executive Cognitive Functions

It's certainly a factor in his lack of ambition.

Lots of people are given narcotic pain medication for various injuries, major dental work, etc. Some of them wind up dependent, as your friend's boyfriend seems to be with cannabis. I would not try to build a life and a family with someone with this habit. The odds are heavily against success without abstinence.

Yes, strawberrybodybutter, that absolutely chimes. I've not really seen it that way before but you're absolutely right, I think she does sort of see it as a project, and that somehow, she can be the one who 'saves' him type thing. For instance, she'll be the one who writes his CV for him, she'll be the one doing all of their joint life admin, she'll sort out his broken car, not him, because he 'can't face' doing these things. All these little things add up though and I don't think she's seeing the bigger picture, in a way. But it's her life. And MissConduct, you're right, a main concern is the heavy cannabis use, which shows no signs of abating. So many of the boys we were at school with got very heavily into it, and have sort of never quite fulfilled their potential, in large part because of their continued use of it. I think it can be beneficial for pain relief but it's very different taking a legally prescribed cannabis oil, for instance, to smoking spliffs every day. It saps all motivation from what I can see.

Oh my god Snowy, yes, identical, down to friend writing his CVs for him! And yes my friends partner has mh issues too, although he smokes weed everyday and from my experience this does exacerbate mh problems (but that's a whole other topic).
My friend did get advice a long time ago about getting him to commit / just be straight on what he wanted but she didn't listen and I think people have now given up.
The thing that upsets me also is he is a very selfish guy, and I wouldn't be surprised if one day he just finished things, met a new woman and had kids out of the blue. He is a real prick, just an example, he wore trainers to a friends wedding so I asked friend to ask him to wear shoes to our wedding before hand as we had a smart venue. He refused and turned up in trainers claiming it infringed on his rights. He is a massive arsehole, I can't stand him but my friend thinks he's lovely and sticks by him through everything (losing jobs, etc).
She says she doesn't care if she doesn't have kids now but I think this is her trying to justify the situation as he won't commit. I would love it if she just got rid of him but apparently she is happy and I'm sure other MNers would be telling me to mind my own business.
This has all affected our friendship, and we are growing apart as she has become quite a bitter person.

Opposites attract? Maybe she prefers someone who isn't a Type A, alpha male: They can be a bit hard work, I prefer a happy medium. Some women like to be the captain of the ship too IME, which means a quiet retiring partner is perfect. Or maybe she has an 'I can fix them' thing?

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My friend was worried about me when I was dating an abusive loser who was controlling and assaulting me. That’s the sort of thing you should be concerned about, not that he doesn’t have much about him or doesn’t earn enough .

although she clearly gets on very well with him and loves him dearly – she’s hilarious so I guess there must be more to him than meets the eye

^^ This and on top of that she wants to marry him. You might think he is a loser but she very clearly doesn’t.

The only thing is surfingowl, she wants to marry him but does he want to marry her? When you have watch your friend get fobbed off by a bloke for years with maybes and one days then it's different. Her friend is happy now but not sure she will be if this goes on (8 years in my friends case).

On more positive note I also have a friend who was with a guy who had alcohol problems, mental health problems and they were on off for a while, it looked like he didn't want to commit. She stuck by him and they are now getting married. I was very dubious about it lasting at the time but now I am VERY glad I kept my thoughts to myself and just supported her, as we will be attending their lovely wedding next year and would cringe if I'd told what I thought at the time. So things may change for OPs friend, they may not, my experience is keep thoughts to yourself unless asked as they probably won't take your advice anyway

I worry about you being so hung up on the kids thing OP.

Your friend could ditch her now partner and meet the perfect guy, in your eyes - still not have kids. It's not a given at any age.

The weed smoking is a separate issue but for what it's worth, I have a very good friend whose husband has only ever worked part time and smoked weed all the time.

Her being pregnant changed everything and he is now squeaky clean and a fabulous stay at home dad, and she has continued her fabulous career.

Interesting.

I dated a man and a few friends told me I should be dating a business man. Like their husbands. They wanted me to date a clone of their husbands basically. I just never seem to gel with that type. I think I end up connecting with artists who are in to the law of attraction, vegan buddhists, philosophers. A man I found fascinating and stimulting, my friend thought was he was ''hopeless''
he smoked rollies, had a beard, only worked part time and wore hoodies at 45. However he taught me so much. Both in terms of the lesson I needed to learn and also, he showed me inadvertently perhaps the kind of person I wanted to be and the things I wanted to learn. She just wants me to meet somebody who wears a suit to work!!