Low salaries not actually low?

[highchairhell]

I'm probably being unreasonable here but it really frustrates me when people say 'we manage on a salary of £24k' etc but conveniently forget to mention the tax credits, child benefit, subsidised school lunches etc that bumps the salary up considerably.
On threads where someone says they struggle earning £50k there are always posters who are incredulous and outraged that people aren't living like kings on that but fail to realise that there would be little to no help for families on that wage whereas the lower wages are propped up with tax free benefits and housing pay that means they have more disposable income than the on paper huger earners!

Die- if you wish for that, why don’t you/can’t you change it?

Well we’re working on it, but stuff keeps happening. Last month the dishwasher broke. This month my husbands bike broke so we have to pay to get it fixed and pay for bus tickets in the meantime.

I can’t get a job because I have 2 young children (2 and 7 months old) and would never earn more than minimum wage due to bad choices earlier in life and that would make us worse off not better. We could do the whole opposite shifts thing but a car is only of value if we can drive it places, if we’re working all the time we’d never have time to go anywhere anyway. Plus it would be a massive decrease in quality of life.

Out of this, I had to pay about £350 per month childcare (wasn't entitled to working tax credits),
Shortbread you definitely were entitled to wtc for childcare just not the wtc cash amount. That’s awful you were given wrong info.

An 11k wage does not equate to a £24k income. Not at all.

Maybe if you have 4 children and you're taking into account childcare.

But a single parent with one child (not in childcare) would be around the £19k area max.

Maybe I should make a post so it seems I’m being less judgmental/rude:

I am from a poor, working class background. Parents had absolute fuck all to give us growing up and wouldn’t of anyway. I got a full scholarship to a local private school (fortunately the primary me and my sister went to was actually very good and the teachers pushed me to work hard.) I fucking hated those 5 years- I was bullied because I didn’t have the latest designer gear, couldn’t go on school trips, parents couldn’t afford to wash my uniform or give me lunch money. Because of that, I did awful in my GCSEs because my whole time at school was spent being ridiculed and because I got zero support over it at home I eventually just crumbled.

Did a year at college and dropped out. Ended up turning to drugs and actually ended up on the streets at one point, not for very long though.

Met my now lovely DH- he was working in a MW job as a single dad at the time, but wanted to go to uni and train to do something different. I did a couple of vocational courses to set my own business up in the field- two failed, fortunately “my third time lucky” paid off.

What I’m trying to say is me and DH spent 3 years living hand to mouth and i did so throughout my childhood- so don’t ever be envious of the “benefit lifestyle” because mine wasn’t flat screen TVs and holidays to Florida.

I guess it just irks me that people sit and complain about how little money they are earning when they can do something about it if they wanted to.

@Barbaraofseville and on £38k I would get £164.62/4weeks TC which is £2,140.06 per year plus my gross of £26,211.99 plus CHB is £29,428 - earning more still gets me more.

I guess this is because as a single parent I would still need childcare whereas a couple may not need to so would loose the tc entitlement earlier

Die- have you not thought of re training to work in a different field??? A lot of colleges offer evening classes so you can fit it in around childcare with your DH, or even an open uni degree?

I’ve looked at the local college and nothing stands out and I’d have to pay fees since I already have a degree. Plus by the time I was done I imagine my husband will earn more money and it will be moot.

I’d love to do a masters one day (I know there’s loans for that now) but not unless we move somewhere there’s a masters I’d be interesting at the local university.

Someone on £24k wouldn't be entitled to anything?

I thought the cut off figure started around £16k then it's depending on how many kids you have?

A single parent qualifies for that much because of the childcare - £175 per week is £8.5k per year, and a couple on £24k combined would also qualify for the same tax credits if they needed child care

@Chocolatecoffeeaddict

XJessica, are you not able to get any child tax credits? We are receiving less than usual for three months as were paying back a small over payment, so we have been also able to claim housing benefit. We're also eligible for council tax support. I receive DLA and carers allowance for my daughter and this makes a lot of difference to our income.

Receiving DLA & CA increases your entitlement to other means tested benefits including Tax Credits (a lot), so it's not comparable with someone who doesn't.

26k is often said to be the average wage, so I'm not sure how anyone thinks people on £24k are getting a lot of benefits.

Yeah, tax credits can add up to 10k annually if you're on a very low wage with a larger family and I can see it being annoying if you're stressed out and looking for advice on struggling with 50k+ to have people claiming they get by on way less while leaving off that additional income. It is a bit disingenuous to claim to get by fine on 10k + some tax credits without any figures there, but so is the idea that everyone on low wages is getting all of these things. Just as it can be argued that the benefit system subsidizes low wages paid by employers, it also puts a lot of barriers in place even for those in need which means people on low wages sometimes aren't getting much more than that regardless of what online calculators say we're supposed to be getting.

A lot of us even at 10-15k pre-benefits aren't getting housing benefits or council tax support or subsidized meals just like a lot of people with disabilities aren't getting DLA/PIP or other support that people think we do. I've been in the bracket for several years and we pay full rent and council tax (which eats a lot of the tax credits) and free school meals only apply to those under around £15k who don't get Working Tax Credits. Really, the only additional benefits on top of financial we've gotten are medical - prescription, eye care, dental care though we're still paying out for mobility aids and other equipment like machines for sleep apnea and sometimes private care.

I think a lot of people are struggling and there is a lot of throwing people under the bus as well as bragging about how much people stretch and endure that doesn't really help anything. I think more open, honest conversations about finances and getting by would be better though we're always going to have people who say they get by a piece of string and a chicken that lasts all week while ignoring credit/debts, benefits, help from family and friends, and so on. YANBU to find those types very frustrating but a bit U to say people on £24k or actual low wages are getting all of these things that many aren't getting.

OP please do your research before posting.

I admit to knowing nothing about benefits of any kind as we've always worked and never been entitled to something, so I won't contribute on that head - however, I would argue that tax is incredibly unfair for one person earning 50k versus x2 people earning half that amount - resulting in more outgoings for the same earnings. I strongly believe as a family we should be taxed as a whole, and one adult should be awarded the others tax allowance if only one of them works. Totally unfair and shit system.

There are comments about the unpaid overtime and expenses of a "middle income" job. But there are expenses of a NMW job too. Often "flexible" hours, which means you work when the employer wants you to (else you will just be quietly dropped from the rota) - which may involve taxi to work because you're staring at 2am, no ability to plan in advance because you won't get your rota until a couple of days of starting time, so train fares etc are always last minute purchases, you may have a uniform provided, but quite likely only one, so you are running the washer and dryer every day.

Every level of job has its disadvantages. And hard work isn't limited to those on high incomes.

I strongly believe as a family we should be taxed as a whole, and one adult should be awarded the others tax allowance if only one of them works. If one spouse has unused tax allowance, they can transfer it to the other.

If one spouse has unused tax allowance, they can transfer it to the other.

Only about 200 quid max not the whole lot. I’d be so happy if I could transfer the whole lot. Would make such a difference to us.

Also only if you earn under the 40% band. A lot of things disappear at that point which seems unfair to me. It’s not a huge salary. I think 80k household income not 40 something individual should be the cutoff.

I don't actually think 24K on its own is low. Had no idea you could top that up with benefits these days, but am out of the loop on this.

I do think people's expectations are a lot higher than, say, 40 years ago.
Things like foreign holidays, new rather than secondhand, leased new cars, regularly drinking bottles of wine at home, eating out other than birthdays or anniversaries - so many restaurants and food outlets now. Many people do not seem to do the 'make do and mend' thing now either, I'm surprised how many things seem to be disposed of before end of life sometimes simply because a change of colour is 'needed'

Successful lawyer in 10 year old Ford with cheap suit on basically doesn't exist because it wouldn't give the impression of success and reassurance to the clients and competitors

I don’t wear suits but I do drive an oldish and very small VW. This doesn’t seem to cause any issue with clients and I don’t give much thought to competitors. I assume that everyone drives the car they want to and that suits their budget. I don’t get excited about cars so I’m not about to spend much money on one. Maybe I don’t exist though.

Doesn’t everyone get free school meals from reception to year 2 now?

Die Antword maybe your husband will earn more in the future but always good to have your own income should anything happen.

I don't really agree that's unfair Die. With your own family as an example, your DH is earning a good salary and you've said he will likely be earning more, you're educated to degree level and while you're currently a SAHM you would presumably have some option to return to working in the future should you choose to do so.

You're at a particular life stage now where it makes more sense to have a sahp and obviously that means only one of you can earn at the moment but you're not a family who should be considered in need of additional support IMO.

Every household has different incomes and outgoings and it is impossible to compare on salaries alone.
On paper my DH and I have quite low salaries but our accommodation with ALL our household bills are paid by our employer so our wage is basically pocket money. On the negative side we are in a precarious position in that if we lose our jobs we lose evrything.

4 kids while the husband earns £23k and says “we live within our means” while taking various handouts? Hahaha!

I work in a role that sees benefit claims and assesses income / outgoings. The number one thing I see is people who become reliant on top up benefits then can't cope when the children grow up and the benefits stop. Yes there is help for people on a low income, but it's not forever. I'd swap places for a reliable £50k, not going to come to an end income any day.