Low salaries not actually low?

[highchairhell]

I'm probably being unreasonable here but it really frustrates me when people say 'we manage on a salary of £24k' etc but conveniently forget to mention the tax credits, child benefit, subsidised school lunches etc that bumps the salary up considerably.
On threads where someone says they struggle earning £50k there are always posters who are incredulous and outraged that people aren't living like kings on that but fail to realise that there would be little to no help for families on that wage whereas the lower wages are propped up with tax free benefits and housing pay that means they have more disposable income than the on paper huger earners!

well I'm part time on 11000 and don't get free school meals and most of my wages pays rent a bit of housing as here in London that doesn't go far also no school uniform grant or half price oyster

11k p/y no top ups, more than half goes on rent, where do you live to get topped up on that wage??

@Shortbread someone on 40k would get ~27k in takehome pay, so while it is more it’s not a tonne more really.

I don't know anywhere where you could earn £24K and get benefits, tax credits and free school lunches! Where is this Utopia? BTW Child Benefit is £20.70 per week (£13.70 for each subsequent child); hardly a King's ransom.

Not that I particularly like this argument but ...

Clients don't know what you drive

Yes they do when you drive to their offices

Without close examination, there's no discernible difference between a £200 suit and a £1000 one.

If you know what you're looking for, yes you can tell.

Are you using your own lifestyle as reference? You seem a little out of touch.

Lower wages are propped up with tax free benefits and housing pay - no, no they're not. They're propped up to minimal living wage (unless you have a football team of kids).

I'm on 22k which is actually good for the area I live in. My tax credits barely bump me to 24k and I don't get discounted housing, school meals etc... I live with one child, and that just about covers us whilst living in a cheapish rented flat, with very little to nothing left over to save or for any luxuries.

The people on the lowest wages should be subsidized to some degree because everyone should have enough to live on. People with larger wages don't deserve to be subsidised. We live in Ireland, I'm a sahm because my job couldn't cover childcare for 3 kids (now 4) and dh earns 50k. We don't deserve anything extra. We are in financial difficulty because of our mistakes, bought a 2 bed in the Celtic tiger and then as we got married and had kids couldn't stay there any more and so we rent as well as pay the mortgage. The 2 bed is not in a good area so we get min rent and have to top up to pay the mortgage while renting ourselves. We also have to pay various taxes because we 'choose' to rent out the property. We still have student loans and various loans from when we were younger. We have very little to spare and the kids don't do any classes, we get clothes for kids from siblings etc but we've only had a few times where eg we couldn't put petrol in the car or had to go without meat. Some people have to worry about this all the time. Also we pay eg health insurance which I know so many people can't afford (we are on the lowest plan and it's over a hundred quid a month!) and if anything goes wrong eg plumbing heating we can forgo a bill. People on the lower wages cannot do this. This is the issue. I do think in most cases both sides will never be able to find a common ground in terms of money. Dh's family are all unemployed and said they don't understand why we shop in Aldi and don't go out more often, that we must be doing something really stupid with all our money.

How about actual figures, £24k lone parent 1 child full childcare .46% pension take home monthly £1,524, TC entitlement £585.86 per 4 weeks www.tax.service.gov.uk/tax-credits-calculator/#/result
equals £7616.18 per year plus child benefit £1,076.40 per year totals
wait for it £32,692.58, - that is totally the same as £50k per year! /s

p.s no free school meals or prescription or goat at that wage

I wonder if the OP needs to run some scenarios and figures through the calculators that are freely available and check some basic assumptions.

Turn 2 Us Benefits Calculator

Entitled to has a Benefits Calculator

As PP have said, the availability/value of any housing contribution will vary with the LHA etc. for a local area.

Successful lawyer in 10 year old Ford with cheap suit on basically doesn't exist because it wouldn't give the impression of success and reassurance to the clients and competitors would not respect you either

Cheap suit maybe but how would they know what car you drove? It seems unlikely that they'd be looking out of the window to see what car you drew up in when you arrived at their office. And if you're in London (or another big city like Edinburgh) you either walk/cycle or use public transport.

For the record, I have an 11 year old Toyota (and a 4 year old Ford).

Yes, you can tell on close inspection, Laurie, but not without invading someone's personal space. If a car's an issue it's simple - park round the corner or use a taxi. Not that many highly paid professionals in a big city drive to see clients at all.

I've just used the Tax Credit calculator and got just £70 per month Child tax credits based on a £24,000 income with one child.

Plus the £80pm child benefit = £150 in top-up benefits per month.

No school meals (you don't get free schools meals when you work)
No prescriptions, etc. (not over £15,500-ish)
No Housing benefit or council tax benefit, other than the 25% reduction for being a lone adult.

Well, actually, when a professional turns up in expensive suit and smart car, my initial thought is "so that's where my money's going, is it?". And I scrutinise their suggestions of further expenditure even more carefully.

@Musereader it is actually the same take home as 50k with plan 1 student loan and 5% mandatory pension contribution.

sorry, made a mistake with my calculation and forgot to deduct tax and NI from the 24k so 24k - tax is £18,389.91 plus the £7616.18 for TC and £1076.40 for CHB is £27082.49

Yes, you can tell on close inspection, Laurie, but not without invading someone's personal space

No, if you know what you're looking for, you can tell with the fit, hang, quality material at a reasonable distance.

if the car's an issue it's simple - park round the corner or use a taxi. Not that many highly paid professionals in a big city drive to see clients at all.

This will work/is true of London. But in smaller, more car dependent cities people drive all the time and see each other's cars frequently; at all agency meetings, court, conferences. I'm in Dublin (as car dependent as it gets) and my company (which is admittedly quite status driven) introduced a car allowance simply because one of the director's cars was old and shabby and it didn't give the right impression.

Like I say, I don't like this argument so I'm not even sure why I'm labouring the point. What I'm saying is, yes there are certain trappings of middle class jobs, but I'm not inclined to feel too sorry for people because they are generally paid well enough to cover them.

that is a monthly amount of £2,194.08 £50k take home is £3085 after tax+ni, but before pension

Oh yes, prescriptions, I don't get them for free anymore either. £260 for a new tooth at the beginning of the year was fab right after my relatively small payrise which put me just over the threshold and stopped all TC payments for 4 months because my new wage meant I was no longer entitled to the annual amount I was originally calculated for.
Also no discounts for the childcare I'm having to pay over the 6 weeks whilst working full time and having no help (think towards 1k, minus one weeks payment for our camping holiday that DP paid for). Where am I getting propped exactly?

Never understood the envy of the benefit lifestyle. Nor do I understand how a family can survive on anything less than about 50-60k a year. It’s people like that who are going to fucking struggle this time next year

Prescriptions are a red herring because most are free and no-one needs to pay more than £10 a month for them.

A couple of people have posted actual numbers that illustrate that tax credits can be significant and hugely close the gap between low and middle incomes (£30-50k where qualifications, long hours, travel, student loan payments and work out of hours etc is often expected).

The poster on £11k and doesn't have to work in the school holidays is topped up to an equivalent of a £24.5k salary. Not going to make anyone rich, but an above average salary in a lot of the country.

Muse Your £7.6k pa tax credits, plus £24k salary is the same take home of someone on a £37-38k salary. Child benefit ignored because both would get that.

So the 'we manage on £10/15/20k plus some tax credits' people are being a bit economical with the truth when they fail to mention that those tax credits are hundreds of pounds a month and equivalent to adding £10k+ to their salary when you remember that someone on the higher salary loses about a third of the extra in tax.

@Musereader My husband earns just under 40k and has the same take home as this hypothetical single parent with one child. I admit we do feel quite like a “squeezed middle” sometimes.

But hey we get by so I guess we can’t complain. Just wish we could afford to drive and had more than 400 quid in savings.

Sounds like you've never had to live on the minimum wage OP. Yes, YABU.

Die- if you wish for that, why don’t you/can’t you change it?

As always outgoings count too. One family on £24k salary might be paying £350 a month for rent, another might be paying £500.
One might be a single parent family paying for childcare, another might have a SAHP or free childcare from a grandparent.
One may live within walking distance of work and dc school, another has travel expenses.

TBH I'm more surprised when posters insist X amount is plenty just because they can manage on it, often insisting nobody NEEDS .

rather depends where you live - housing costs whether rent or purchase. Universal Credit is limiting hb & will stop working tax credit & the level of receipt of any benefit will be basically down to the equivalent of unemployment benefit - for every pound over that figure two thirds of each pound will be taken off -