Low salaries not actually low?

[highchairhell]

I'm probably being unreasonable here but it really frustrates me when people say 'we manage on a salary of £24k' etc but conveniently forget to mention the tax credits, child benefit, subsidised school lunches etc that bumps the salary up considerably.
On threads where someone says they struggle earning £50k there are always posters who are incredulous and outraged that people aren't living like kings on that but fail to realise that there would be little to no help for families on that wage whereas the lower wages are propped up with tax free benefits and housing pay that means they have more disposable income than the on paper huger earners!

I think people need to stop getting their knickers in a twist about others finances.

All of the comparisons on here are made with someone paying out the maximum in benefits whilst the opposing side have maximum childcare expenses.

No one ever takes into account the wealth effect of an asset like a house being paid of by a mortgage when they consider these things. Just look at what the others get, wahhhhh

I agree with Topcat. Childcare costs while high only last for a certain period of time and people tend to forget pension contributions in calculations. Yes it is an expense but it is something that will be a benefit in later life and should grow. Similarly mortgages are helping to build an asset.

I get so annoyed with the woe is me attitude of some high earners. Yes living costs are high but how do you think people cope that earn less? I do acknowledge that for many people they are not leading the lifestyle they thought they would on their level of income. I am the same. If you’d have asked me at 20 what lifestyle I thought someone would have on my current household income, I’d have expected something much more luxurious. However, anyone in the high earning bracket is extremely fortunate and should remember if they are being ‘squeezed’ others will be feeling it more. And it is a very different type of ‘squeezed’ to someone who can’t afford to feed their children.

However in the private sector someone earning £50k will most likely recieve a package worth far more. Private health care and insurance for them and their spouse ( worth at least £1,500 a year), discounts of gym memberships, health insurance, and of course employer contributed pensions.
This is not usually a "free" package, but comes as a salary sacrifice scheme (the only saving is on the national insurance contributions).
Workplace pensions are compulsory for everyone. Private employers usually contribute above this level only on the "matching" basis (i.e., matching employee's own contributions).

@user1471426142

I doubt very much that there are people in the UK who genuinely cannot afford to feed their children. I understand the concept of poetic exaggeration, but it is actually a little bit insulting to people in less developed countries, who are actually starving.

There absolutely are people who can't afford to feed their children. Why do you think food banks exist?

You don't think people are genuinely unable to afford food? really? This is not even new, do the phrases heat or eat mean nothing to your ears? it's pretty much an annual sound bite on the news with people having to choose between food and heating in winter. It's one thing to be unaware, but the willful ignorance is just depressing.

SchadenfreudePersonified

So communism then??

@Bluelady

I don't know. The only user I know in real life is my ex's sister, and she used it to prove how "destitute" she is, it gave her a some sort of a self-validation zing (in reality, she was very far from destitution and probably absolutely not representative of the users' population).

I assume people with chaotic lifestyles are frequent users. Drug / alcohol addicts, ex-offenders, rough sleepers.

The people I see going into the food bank here are normal families. You have to have a referral to use it so I have no doubt those people genuinely can't buy food.

We have a combined income of £36k but are quite skint to be honest. We have to think about what we're spending. We don't go on holidays, don't do any fun sort of 'days' out except cheap or free stuff. We get a takeaway every couple of weeks and occasionally go on a date.

We are buying a house but most of our deposit has been from parents. After our rent, council tax and bills, petrol, car payments and saving 10% of take home each we have about £300 left for the month.

It'll get better.

@Bluelady
Don't get me wrong, it is great that this type of help exists. It would probably be very efficient (at the government level) if certain staple foods were just available to everyone at zero cost with no need for complicated systems or referrals. Things like potatoes, flour, oats, eggs, rice. Costing pennies wholesale really.

Some people are natural savers / economisers no matter what they earn. We both work in the City but budget everything very carefully, shop in Aldi and Tesco and always look around for the best deal whenever we buy anything. My last clothes purchase was a cardigan from Asda. That's just how I am! I know a similar couple who probably earn more but who claim to be "struggling". They are mortgaged to the hilt (4 bedroom house for them and a baby), 2 nice cars (both of them commute by train), have fancy gym memberships, buy designer clothes, buy all new stuff for their baby (including posh furniture for the nursery) and shop in Waitrose.

I doubt very much that there are people in the UK who genuinely cannot afford to feed their children

I can promise you that there are cuckoo.

Their kids may not be in the same state as those poor souls in Darfur etc, but they go to bed hungry every night, because there is not enough food to fill them. They return to school after the summer holiday weighing less than they did at the start. Their physical and intellectual growth is affected, and they find it hard to concentrate because they are constantly, grindingly HUNGRY.

A rose by any other name, I suppose stumpy.

I came to France to live, I fell in love with my husband here, we got married and I gave up my career to start anew here. We don't earn much, he earns about 18K and when I'm at work (currently a SAHM) I earn in the region of 20K. Food is expensive here, wages are lower but the cost of living is lower than that of the UK - healthcare, childcare, family benefit are all provided by the state to ensure a basic, uniform standard of living (like the welfare state is/was supposed to do). I miss my family, my friends and my country but I simply can't afford to move back to the UK with my husband and two babies.

Don't get me wrong, it is great that this type of help exists

You patronising cow!

certain staple foods were just available to everyone at zero cost with no need for complicated systems or referrals. Things like potatoes, flour, oats, eggs, rice. Costing pennies wholesale really

Hardly a balanced diet - we'll have wholesale rickets again as well.

the cost of living is lower than that of the UK - healthcare, childcare, family benefit are all provided by the state to ensure a basic, uniform standard of living (like the welfare state is/was supposed to do)

That's interesting PlaitPas. It was indeed what the welfare state was intended for before greedy politicians tried to make a profit from it, as opposed to supporting it. There are some things that should be the responsibility of the state - care of the population is one of them.

Redneck I think /hope

SchadenfreudePersonified was being sarcastic!!

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Did I offend you in some way? If I did, please accept my apologies, English is my third language and I don't always get finer nuances.
How would you estimate the split of responsibility between the parents and the government re the child not getting rickets? 50/50? 10/90? 1/99? It is a genuine question.

Our family salary went from c£20k to c. £30k.

We thought we’d be so much better off but there was only a very slight difference in disposable income after tax credits/ tax NI/ pension were taken into account.

It does annoy me when posters don’t acknowledge this in financial threads,

Thanks staathomer - I was being sarcastic.

I thought it was obvious, but it seems not.

(But actually, thinking about it, communism (not the Russian/Chinese/Korean kind, which is actually just tyranny under the name of communism) has a lot going for it. Its basic precepts are the same as those of Christianity, Buddhism, and probably quite a few other religions. Sadly, because people as a species are greedy and power-grabbing, I doubt that any of them would really work in practise)

I do get a bit fed up with people who complain about how badly off they are on what is, for most people, a quite brilliant income, though.

Pack yer job in and go on benefits, if life on the poverty-line is so great!

sarahandduck better in the longterm though I imagine.

Apologies accepted cuckoo - and if English is your third language, you have nothing to apologise for. I only speak one and can struggle through (and it is a struggle!) in two others, but only when they are written - can't speak them. I thought you were a native English speaker, so your command of the language is impressive.

Quite honestly - I think that governments have a responsibility to provide good education, housing and healthcare for everyone - something the UK's government seems to have forgotten. If the government provides basic living standards, then it will be up to parents to ensure that they don't squander their children's opportunities. But if there is no possibility of properly feeding or educating your child because of cost etc, then parents don't stand a chance.

The gap between the rich and poor should be lessened, but how this can be achieved I don't know, though there are some economists who have what they believe are workable ideas - and certainly plugging the tax loopholes for the very rich and for corporations is necessary, as is coming down with the full weight of the law on the Phillip Greens of this world, who rob pension funds etc and then swan off scot free.

What I find very hard to swallow on threads like these is that some people seem to hold the unemployed etc responsible for their own problems. I live, and worked, in an area of great deprivation - our parish is the second poorest in the UK. I can tell you that most people WANT to work; they don't want charity, and they don't like claiming benefits. Work doesn't just provide money - it provides dignity, and self-esteem. It is psychologically as well as economically important.

In the hospital I worked in every job advertised ( porter etc) attracted hundreds of applications - we couldn't even read them all to form a short-list, as there were too many. Most were shredded unread, awful as it sounds, as there just wasn't time. Some of the stories and the desperate pleas to be considered were heartbreaking.

And then people come online whinging because they're getting fifty grand and their neighbour who is on ten grand gets a top-up! As I say, if they resent it so much they should pack their jobs in and go on benefits and see what life is really like on the other side of the fence.

The grass isn't green at all, I can tell you. For every feckless parent who spends the kid's family allowance on cushions and fags, and takes on debt and doesn't care what happens, there are a hundred unable to sleep at night because they are worried they will lose their home, or don't know how they'll get a pair of shoes for a child who can hardly walk because the ones he has are crippling his feet, or has one slice of bread and 1/4 of a packet of marge to feed three kids for two days.

I don’t begrudge people who get a top up and from what I could tell that’s not what it’s about. It’s about people who go on at how well they do on a low income, with the implication anyone on a higher income struggling must be feckless with money, without mentioning they have a similar monthly income on account of their top ups.

Like I’m not saying I personally am not feckless with money but it’s still true that in the low to middle band taxation and benefits do even things out a lot for families with children. It’s only when you start earning really silly money that your lifestyle can be genuinely different.

What I don’t understand is - I live in a very boring standard suburb next to both a very deprived town on one side and an extremely obscenely wealthy town on the next. This rich town is literally full of mansions. There’s thousands of them. Even assuming they’re all split into flats they’d still be out of the reach of anyone on a normal salary. It astonishes me there’s enough people to buy them all. It’s not like these are the only ones in the country. There’s plenty of very expensive homes in all the major cities and also in almost all towns and cities in the south.

My dad was in the top 1% of earnings before the oil industry crashed and he could never have afforded these houses. I simply don’t understand how there is a market for them or who is buying them. Bloody jealous of them whoever they are lol.

DieAntword Very pricey housing housing - It's often a good combination of two people on very good salaries with a very, very large mortgages.