Low salaries not actually low?

[highchairhell]

I'm probably being unreasonable here but it really frustrates me when people say 'we manage on a salary of £24k' etc but conveniently forget to mention the tax credits, child benefit, subsidised school lunches etc that bumps the salary up considerably.
On threads where someone says they struggle earning £50k there are always posters who are incredulous and outraged that people aren't living like kings on that but fail to realise that there would be little to no help for families on that wage whereas the lower wages are propped up with tax free benefits and housing pay that means they have more disposable income than the on paper huger earners!

highchairhell
Looking forward to seeing your article in the Daily Heil now

The £1000 suit thing certainly depends on what sector you work in. A surgeon won't be held back by what he wears, but in finance it is a possibility.

I used to work for a commercial banking firm and the management don't promote people they see as 'not one of us'. And they can spot an M&S suit a mile off. Yes they were tossers, but if you wanted to get the higher paid roles you had to play the game.

Aaaah! So they are "working the system" Cuckoo

Would they have been quite as keen to swap jobs if child maintenance was taken into account? - I assume it is a tidy sum, and not £5/week.

if you wanted to get the higher paid roles you had to play the game.

But why would you want a higher-paid role? As cuckoo has pointed out, you can walk out of your highly-paid job into £10 grand/ year and be better off with benefits.

So promotion in banking depends on wearing a £1000 suit, not talent, skill, intelligence or experience. No wonder we had to bail the banks out ten years ago. You'd think they'd have learnt from that.

I don't really care if people on lower pay are currently better off than me because of tax credits.

When their children grow up they are going to face a significant drop in income, plus limited pension provision. Anyone who purposely swaps a decently paid job for something low paid plus benefits is just saving up trouble for themselves in the future.

We all do what we think is best for ourselves with the information available. I have made the choice that I feel will give me greater security throughout my life. I don't judge or envy those who make different choices.

@bluelady. That's probably an accurate assessment, yes.

At least 10 years ago it did anyway. What you wore, where you went to school, who you knew, how you behaved in social settings and where you played golf were all more important than talent or skill.

not a journalist, just interested.

BlueLady

I had the dubious priviledge of working with senior banking figures in Canary Wharf. Some of them I would struggle to class as "sane" - truly...

These are scary, scary people, for whom image is everything.

For the record I no longer work in that world and can get away with wearing pretty much anything I want now, but I do consider my current situation unusual.

It does however make a big difference if you're providing personal investment advice to the elite

Ah brilliant we work in the same industry (if not the same profession) and we still don’t agree! I wish you could have seen the way the UHNW client I’ve just seen was dressed, and the car he turned up in. And we had a lovely chat about his holiday in Scotland and failed MOT. Well the MOT bit less lovely.

Your post was massively offensive. All this talk of hanging around at the bottom and admin.

And you say it’s obvious that you aren’t talking about all cases, but you present it as fact. Wasn’t it you who claimed that successful lawyers in cheap suits “don’t exist”? If saying I don’t exist isn’t refusing to accept my experience I’m not sure what is.

Also only if you earn under the 40% band. A lot of things disappear at that point which seems unfair to me. It’s not a huge salary. If you're earning in the 40% band you're in the top 15% of taxpayers. 85% of people earning enough to pay tax are earning less than you. That doesn't seem a bad place to have the cutoff.

there's a huge difference between a £200 and £1000 suit and it's pretty obvious after about 5 seconds observation

I'll stick to my navy - goes with everything & suitable for every occasion American designer wool suit. On the £1 bargain rail in local charity shop, just happened to be my size. Decided it wasn't worth spending £10-15 dry cleaning it, so washed on wool cycle in machine, carefully ironed. Is always admired greatly, and looks fab on. I find it ironic that any blouse, top, shoes or jewellery I wear with it always has cost me more.

Beer money champagne tastes - misery
Champagne money beer or chardonnay tastes - laughing all the way to the bank

7k, no topups. You're lucky.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I don't know anything about the child maintenance amount they receive (or not). It is quite reasonable that it is not taken into account as it is totally outside the receiving parent's control.

I was their manager and I was quite disappointed that we were not able to counter-offer anything that would entice them to stay, either in terms of hours or pay, as they were really good (they were on around the pay level discussed, one a bit above, one a bit below). They were quite honest about the whole situation. I very seriously considered it myself too, especially given that my children are younger and the whole set up is simply exhausting. I did not leave my job in the end, but I turned down a significant annual salary raise in April that would have taken me just over 6 figures gross - as it is effectively taxed at 60% before NI and I lose the (future) 30 hours entitlement.

I think the main thing is a person should be better off in employment than not working. Therefore Im glad their tax credits help boast their income. However I work with many clients in entry level or unskilled jobs that are still in poverty because the wages are so low and they are faced with the reality that not working but being on universal credit may be better for them. It's hard to argue with as childcare costs are a lot higher than the average wage...

I would tread very carefully taking the figures on the calculators for benefits as factual. They very rarely are. They tend not to take into account how the childcare element actually works so if you do a calculation involving childcare costs they can be off by thousands

I think what's sad is that to a large extent poverty has been redefined. In the early 1900s poverty meant children sharing one pair of shoes and just bread and dripping for lunch and dinner. Being poor meant all the dc having a pair of shoes and a good dinner every day. Eithed way the dc left school at 14. Both types of family probably shared an outside lavatory with another family. Coal fire if they were lucky, no electricity, no phone, no tv. Worked six days a week with two weeks' holiday at best - hop picking possibly for the poor family. Limited healthcare, no dentistry.

I think what's sad is that to a large extent poverty has been redefined.

What's sad about not making poverty a race to the bottom?

Namechangeforthiscancershit

I wish you could have seen the way the UHNW client I’ve just seen was dressed, and the car he turned up in. And we had a lovely chat about his holiday in Scotland and failed MOT.

Yes, clients come in all shapes and sizes.

All this talk of hanging around at the bottom and admin.

I've seen people left behind, whilst better-presented (but less-skilled) colleagues overtake them.

Wasn’t it you who claimed that successful lawyers in cheap suits “don’t exist”?

No, that was not me.

A low salary is a low salary. Benefits are not salary. Some people may receive certain state benefits which gives then more income but it is not salary and can be removed or lost when children grow up, or there is a rule change. There situation is therefore considerably more precarious than someone who earns more but has the same disposable income

How about actual figures, £24k lone parent 1 child full childcare .46% pension take home monthly £1,524, TC entitlement £585.86 per 4 weekswww.tax.service.gov.uk/tax-credits-calculator/#/result
equals £7616.18 per year plus child benefit £1,076.40 per year totals
wait for it £32,692.58, - that is totally the same as £50k per year! /s

Did you do the 7k and the 1k as before Or after tax and NI

What is your monthly income as that is a closer indicator of your annual income

No, that was not me

Apologies

Do earns £24000 a year I am a sahm we have 3 dc, we get £365 a month housing benefit, £226 a week tax credits, £48.10 a week child benefit and council tax is reduced from £165 a month to £98 (we also get dla for 1 dc but won't add that in) We live a comfort life and have an all inclusive abroad holiday each year and 1 other holiday. However we don't smoke, vape or drink and only run 1 car so save a lot in these areas compared to some. I am grateful for the help we get and glad we live in a country that offers this level of support.

@BackToBeingMe

That's actually not that bad. Equivalent to £55K single earner wage.