Cancel the Notting Hill Carnival!

[Witchofwisteria]

AIBU. This year police have confiscated 49 knives and 70 offensive weapons total, including ACID and stun guns plus one stabbing. Over 400 people were arrested, up from 313 last year and I am starting to wonder when enough will be enough.

The streets are left in a state after the event and the cost to taxpayer is astronomical. I feel like the Notting hill carnival has lost its way and turned into a breeding ground for opportunistic thugs. The thought that someone was wondering round with ACID, willing to throw it into a crowd and scar however many tens of people it sprayed on is beyond sick. We are quite happy to say terrorists are a major threat to Londoners but these groups are a MUCH worse threat to our daily lives and it's just too risky to have this event when we know it's going to attract these nasty individuals and gangs.

I'm totally not a fuddy duddy and appreciate that things like rubbish being left and dirty streets are always going to happen with big public festivals (like Brighton Pride) but Notting hill is just seeming to get more sinister each year.

Time to cancel the festival for 1 year, sit down and re think how this could be made into a ticketed festival in 2020. The price of the ticket will help pay for the extra policing and security, fencing and security around the cordoned off area and contribute towards charities the festival supports. Think Hyde park concerts in the park type event, we need to keep people safe.

YABU! carnival has a rich and important history and is a vital event for London. I love the fact that most of the people agreeing are people who openly say they've never been. And as for someone saying it's moody... I think maybe you went to the wrong street!? It's also safer than festivals like Glastonbury.

There have been numerous murdered in the carnival. There have been even more stabbings. Until you have dealt with a stab victim, fighting for his life while all around carnival goers dance and make merry I suggest you leave this one alone.

I do like the previous poster who stated they enjoyed carnival, but made sure they left before dark, too bad for the residents who can't leave....

If you think crush injuries are not likely get to the northern end of Ladbroke grove at 6pm.....stand in the puddle of piss from the overflowing portaloos... and see what happens to the crowd when a small scuffle breaks out...

There have been five deaths at NHC in 42 years.

‚Yes, if you want to insult the black community, irreparably damage race relations and potentially cause riots‘.

The problem here is not the issue of dispensing with an event which we all know enables criminal activity from pick pocketing to stabbings and violent assaults but your suggestion that making the common sense decision to do so will result in yet more criminal and violent behaviour, in the form of riots. Why do you think the ‚black community‘ is incapable of rational thought and measured conduct? Are you some sort of racist? I am black and i find it very insulting that you would think my community would riot over simething as trivial as a street event or that we are too stupid to see there might be cogent reasons for banning it.

Ladbroke Grove is where there was a near miss in 2016 with a crowd crush.
Festivals are unlikely to have that happen as they have a restricted number of people over a less dense area. All that needs to happen at Carnival is a major fight to break out at Ladbroke Grove, and the chances of people getting crushed as they try and get away, is unfortunately a real risk.
But it does seem to have been better managed this year. So I am hoping this includes addressing the real risk of crushing.
They did address the real risk of terrorism by ensuring someone can not drive a truck through the crowds.

Why do you think the ‚black community‘ is incapable of rational thought and measured conduct? Are you some sort of racist? I am black and i find it very insulting that you would think my community would riot over simething as trivial as a street event or that we are too stupid to see there might be cogent reasons for banning it.

Well said!

The worst area I found was at the top of Portobello. There's a pub there that kind of juts our iirc and it made a bottle neck. I got crushed up against the wall of the pub and couldn't see a way through the crowd and it was scary and it did hurt, I'm not going to be a drama llama and say I was in fear for my life, i wasn't but it was pretty frightening. Luckily we had a very tall friend with us who was able to see where to go through the crowd and he managed to hold people back enough for us short ones to get round the corner and out of the bottle neck.

As someone who works in city centre events and can't get police support for much much smaller events because of how stretched they are I really don't see how it can be sustainable for much longer. The police are so stretched and you can only get licensing for events from a SAG (safety advisory group) usually where you can demonstrate effective security you are providing yourself. I know this is a famous event but equally events have to change with the times to ensure they have a viable future.

I am black and i find it very insulting that you would think my community would riot over simething as trivial as a street event or that we are too stupid to see there might be cogent reasons for banning it

It's high time somebody said this, Smudge - though please know that not all of us feel this way about the black community

I've sometimes wondered, when folk say that something which doesn't suit will cause riots, if it's a general poverty of expectation or a reflection of the sort of people those who say it mix with

It's not a trivial street event though. That's the point.

I went for the first time ever on Monday and that's purely because i was child free, bored and friend convinced me to check it out. I wasn't impressed. As someone with caribbean parents, Ive been to carnival several times in the caribbean and notting hill doesnt even compare. It was wayyyyyy too crowded, witnessed a bunch of people get arrested, lost my friend and because area was so packed our reception and data were down literally 95% of the time so took ages to find each other again which was annoying. Unlike caribbean carnival which is alot more enjoyable NTC is def not somewhere to take children. I saw people peeing literally feet away from peoples front doors, police arresting people and literally got crushed a handful of times. I stayed about 3 hours in total alot of that time though was spent trying to find my friend when we got separated. Might give it another chance one day. I do think it would have been way better experience if there were less people

Children's day is for children....

I enjoyed Notting Hill Carnival when I was younger and now live in Brighton, tho too old to enjoy the anarchy of Pride.

I think, as Claudia and Bluelady say, these events are very significant to many people and trouble comes from people who are not invested in them. Over a million people attended carnival this year - it would be terrible if the event was to be cancelled, moved or made into a ticketed event because it attracts criminals. That would be a truly terrible message..

As sparklesocks pointed out large scale festivals do attract crime - www.vice.com/en_uk/article/zmmy89/proof-carnival-has-less-crime-than-the-uks-other-big-summer-events. I understand why on a personal level you don't like carnival but you are clearly not one of the people who's life is enhanced by it and community is reassured by it's existence.

Perhaps you should get involved in the next one, maybe helping out for the children's parade. You're eyes will be opened and you might actually enjoy it.

Its a pity the Police dont rock up ar Glastonbury with a whole load of sniffer dogs and a zero tolerance completely un announced

I think that would bring a whole lot of interesting findings

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/08/26/record-amount-of-illegal-drugs-seized-at-this-years-leeds-festival-7884360/amp/

Well they do at Leeds. See above link.

Glastonbury used to have few police there and open drug dealing. It is no longer like that.

On simple safety grounds, an event that's too dangerous to take your family to should not be allowed to happen in streets in a residential area. Doesn't matter whose culture you are celebrating. I'd say the same if morris dancers were stalking the streets with knives and acid. And the area, btw, is home to many people who certainly aren't "rich entitled white people" who can afford to board their houses up and go away for the weekend. There's a lot of social housing in NH and families in it generally don't have a lot of choice about where they live.

They should move the whole
thing to Hyde Park. Whole thing behind a perimeter fence with metal detectors at the entrance so no one takes in a knife. They could issue free tickets which you have to apply for in advance, to prevent overcrowding.

I was there, it was brilliant. The atmosphere was amazing and people were kind, friendly and generous. There is a small proportion of crime compared to a huge number of people. You're letting hysteria grip you, it's silly and childish. Bad stuff exists on the street with or without the carnival. The community puts HUGE amounts of work into it all through the year, it binds people together. You're ignorimg all that or you simply know nothing about it. You seem middle class and horribly ignorant.

'Ignorant' is if you think that the disruption is purely on the route or during official times or limited to crime.

'Middle class' / 'community' - so anyone who is involved isn't middle class and it's only 'community' involved (so if you're not you don't bong to the community?). That's a bit condescending.

If your assumption that it's all fancy rich folks who bugger off anyway (so who cares?) then you don't know the area then. Of course there are the uber rich but there are also refuges, hostels and kids/teen drop in centres, charities that have open doors for addicts, homeless and kids who are too scared to go home/coping with scary home life, retirement homes... AA/NA meetings have to move from some locations (and they meet several times a week from necessity).

They don't have anywhere to go and have to keep providing their services as best thet can. You might see a fancy house on a fancy square but look closer - a womens refuge sits between the mansions and you would not know it's there (quite rightly).

Try living close to the route - the noise, piles of rubbish, closed local stations, boarded up shops, gangs of lads late night roaming about, rise in car break ins, idiots over indulging and pissing on your steps/fighting/pukking... And it starts from the Friday night in reality. Not every one had 3 days off.

It's not the crime (there is a problem with crime anyway), it's the hassle that comes with an event that swamps a big chunk of West London over the bank holiday.

Loads of people now air b&b/come down for the weekend to party - on Friday, aarueoams Sunday supermarkets are full of people buying booze (it's like new year).

It reminds me of when you have a birthday party for your whour whole kids' class when they are little - they have a bloody brilliant time and you are left mopping up the vomit and trying to get cake off the church hall ceiling.

It's just too big for where it is. It could be bloody brilliant - why not use the Pride or St Particks day route? The area is very mixed now. It doesn't belong to any one group.

@Bluelady, we know how it started and why it started that is not the issue, the issue is it has got bigger and bigger over the years and the streets of notting hill cannot handle it, i live bang in the middle of it and every year i have to move out, is that fair on me? is it fair that i have to pay to move out of my house on the last bank holiday we have before xmas, a whole weekend wasted in my eyes, its a complete joke and then when i do come home i have to wash the stairs that lead up to my house not to mention the stench that lingers in the air for 2 weeks afterwards, i know the origins of the notting hill carnival i have lived there all my life but the event is just too big for the area now and i agree with the others, the knife crime, the bad behaviour and the utter disrespect of the people who come into the area and do what the hell they want for 2 days

It is interesting that a lot of the scaremongering about carnival comes from people who have never attended.
I've visited on and off over the last 20 years and never witnessed any trouble. It was always surprising and interesting to read the headlines the next day and see the hysteria suggesting the event was some sort of war zone.

London has changed over the years and knife and general crime has become more of an issue but never forget the over riding majority of people attending carnival just want to party and have a good time.
You should also bear in mind that when notting hill was a slum no one cared ...now property prices have risen it's in a lot of people's interest to highlight criminality in order to support a ban.

Yes, if you want to insult the black community in London, irreparably damage race relations and potentially cause riots, fill, your boots

Exactly, had it been held in any other part of London it would have been cancelled years ago but the authorities are being blackmailed, if one is allowed to use that word.

Yes the word blackmail can be used but it's not relevant in this context as the suggestion that there would be riots is a fallacy based on nothing but negative stereotypes.
The key issue is how are other events which result in civil unrest dealt with in comparison to what's being suggested for NHC?
With overdose deaths and countless sexual assaults is anyone campaigning for Glastonbury to be shut or moved? When football violence peaks does anyone suggest banning or moving matches to safer locations ? Of course not
When you've experienced the event for yourself come back and make an informed comment... you may even surprise yourself