Cancel the Notting Hill Carnival!

[Witchofwisteria]

AIBU. This year police have confiscated 49 knives and 70 offensive weapons total, including ACID and stun guns plus one stabbing. Over 400 people were arrested, up from 313 last year and I am starting to wonder when enough will be enough.

The streets are left in a state after the event and the cost to taxpayer is astronomical. I feel like the Notting hill carnival has lost its way and turned into a breeding ground for opportunistic thugs. The thought that someone was wondering round with ACID, willing to throw it into a crowd and scar however many tens of people it sprayed on is beyond sick. We are quite happy to say terrorists are a major threat to Londoners but these groups are a MUCH worse threat to our daily lives and it's just too risky to have this event when we know it's going to attract these nasty individuals and gangs.

I'm totally not a fuddy duddy and appreciate that things like rubbish being left and dirty streets are always going to happen with big public festivals (like Brighton Pride) but Notting hill is just seeming to get more sinister each year.

Time to cancel the festival for 1 year, sit down and re think how this could be made into a ticketed festival in 2020. The price of the ticket will help pay for the extra policing and security, fencing and security around the cordoned off area and contribute towards charities the festival supports. Think Hyde park concerts in the park type event, we need to keep people safe.

Why don't they relocate if it causes such anxiety on an annual basis?

Absolutely absurd suggestion.

football matches don't require 6000+ police officers to manage the event each day though.

Indeed...

Went to rugby final at Twickenham in May.... Crowd of 75,000.... saw two police officers in the 3 hours I was in and around the stadium!

But there were over 1,000,000 people at Carnival this year. Not standing still. It was pissiing down on Sunday. The numbers attending can go as high as 2,000,000.

It's part of the heritage of this area. None of my neighbours go away for the weekend to avoid Carnival. They might not go to Carnival but if they go away it's because it's Bank Holiday and they fancy a break.

Why arent you as angry about crime when its commited by people with white skin?

Pathetic...... and not worthy of any further remark.

Why? Because you haven't got a credible answer?

@Bluelady In a nice way - what do you have to say in response to the comments on the thread from those that have their homes destroyed, police beaten and assaulted and their lives totally disrupted throughout the entire weekend in many different ways? I think it's a bit selfish to constantly just defend keeping the carnival the exact way it is when clearly it's a problem for many whether people want to admit it or not?

Maybe if we can come up with a solution that does not, once again, strip us of our heritage and identity and sense of community.

Right now our 'lower middle-class' and poor, multi-cultural community is fractured, no-one in government gives a damn about this. Contrary to popular belief it is not just black children caught up in the madness.
However, poorer families are targetted by groomers and due to the structure of this country, black people are over-represented in this demographic. But even though all races are involved, it's the black people who are the problem. Then the one time, one moment when we can all come together in celebration of community and togetherness, once again the negativity about a black celebration comes around, even though everyone from all races enjoy the event. Are you telling me there were no positives?

Find a solution that does not strip us of who we are and for the record Hyde Park is not it.

I say what I've said repeatedly. If living in Notting Hill has such an adverse effect on your life because of the carnival, don't live there. It's two days out of 365. You don't get all this fuss and nonsense from people living in the streets around the Emirates stadium or Twickenham and their lives are affected at least every couple of weeks.

But it's not just notting hill - it stretches out a lot wider than the route!

You don't get all this fuss and nonsense from people living in the streets around the Emirates stadium or Twickenham and their lives are affected at least every couple of weeks

Nothing to say about carnival but Actually there's a no tolerance policy on local fans throwing litter and pissing in people's gardens during matches.

Why arent you as angry about crime when its commited by people with white skin?

It's nothing to do with being racists. Stop that lazy shutting down of discussion. People who live in the area have explained many times their arguments and you just keep accusing of them of being racist. So tedious and lazy.

With relation to football crowds and violence and conflating with NHC; I lived on Loftus Road, right outside the stadium for a few years, so regular matches, with many black football fans by the way, and never saw anything out of the ordinary or unpleasant and certainly wasn't bothered by peaceful crowds moving towards the ground then away again afterwards.

I'm not some pearl clutcher who shrieks at a bit of noise and drinking, I love seeing the youngsters in my area off to carnival, especially the girls who pull out all the stops and look absolutely stunning, the whole thing is an amazing event and I would never want to see it cancelled but it HAS outgrown the area and it's bloody awful for people, especially the elderly and frail who live in the area and can't afford or aren't able to go away. I probably know more of such people as that was my area when I was working for a hospital just off Ladbroke Grove. The area isn't just full of rich whiny people by the way, especially towards the top of Ladbroke Grove and Kendal Rise so I wish people would stop being so sneery about that and dismissing it with "move if you don't like it then!"

It's too big and too disruptive and has changed to much for its venue. There's no getting away from it. I do think there'll be a massive tragedy sooner or later though and then will there be shouts of how the authorities didn't care enough because it's a predominantly black event I wonder seeing as racism is constantly tied to the expression of any negative comments about NHC in its current form.

Kensal Rise

@Bluelady that's not awnsering my question. What about the police and innocent victims that I bought up how do you justify that? What about those in council homes that can't just choose to not live there or those that cannot afford to stay in that area but move further away from the carnival route? What about those that work there or have to go through there to get to work etc... it's all just collateral damage to selfish people who would rather the carnival stay as it is instead of move to a controlled area.

If it was moved it would still have to be policed. Not sure what you mean about "victims". If you move it, you move the perceived problem somewhere else and affect a different set of people. If you try to control it you change the entire nature of the event and NHC has gone - which is what you said you wanted in the first place.

Anyway, Witch, I've been very patient with your what aboutery, we'll just have to agree to differ now.

A football match lasts 90 minutes. Factor in a built up and egress and you have up to 5 hours of potential disruption.

During that period you do not see;
Tube stations shut for 2 days
Buse services suspended
Shops shut up
People unable to move from their homes
The clean up dies not take 12 hours
There is no overflowing portaloos
No one pisses in the street
The sound level does not reach deafening proportions
Indeed the cops on duty take the first hour of play as a chance to stop and eat.

Twickenham has been less disruption and very few police.

There is no comparison between Emirates stadium and notting hill

@bluelady

By moving to a smaller controlled area. Like a park. Entrance can be controlled and "celebrants" who see fit to carry weapons can be stopped from entering.

Anyway, Witch, I've been very patient with your what aboutery, we'll just have to agree to differ now.

I thought "whataboutery" was when people relate, unrelated issues to an issue and ask people to compare which is worse, in order to deflect rather than actually address the issue at hand...

Witch is asking for consideration of others who live in the area and are negatively being affected, that's not whataboutery.

Did you miss the words "What about" in her post? Or am I hallucinating?

that doesn't make it "whataboutery"!

It does in my book.

Why are you being so rude anyway? Without ever actually answering any of the points made? Your argument seems to be "we don't want it changed because we like it as it is, you are racist if you disagree".

@shopnblog with my skin colour i dont have the luxury of not being wrapped up in this race issue.

also dogs are not a 'harmless pet'. they leaving shit all over the pavements and biting thousands of people per year.

interesting that in this discussion that is what you picked up on though.

It sounds like a nightmare. I had no idea - naively imagining that particular carnival to be filled with fun and the police officers sharing in it all. Wow.

Clearly, the reality is gross.

Weapons at a carnival? Something is seriously skewed.

I wasn't aware I had been rude. I've been perfectly polite and have made it clear why I think it should remain as it is. It's getting very tedious having to repost the same thing over and over again because people can't be bothered to RTFT.