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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cancel the Notting Hill Carnival!

373 replies

Witchofwisteria · 28/08/2018 07:33

AIBU. This year police have confiscated 49 knives and 70 offensive weapons total, including ACID and stun guns plus one stabbing. Over 400 people were arrested, up from 313 last year and I am starting to wonder when enough will be enough.

The streets are left in a state after the event and the cost to taxpayer is astronomical. I feel like the Notting hill carnival has lost its way and turned into a breeding ground for opportunistic thugs. The thought that someone was wondering round with ACID, willing to throw it into a crowd and scar however many tens of people it sprayed on is beyond sick. We are quite happy to say terrorists are a major threat to Londoners but these groups are a MUCH worse threat to our daily lives and it's just too risky to have this event when we know it's going to attract these nasty individuals and gangs.

I'm totally not a fuddy duddy and appreciate that things like rubbish being left and dirty streets are always going to happen with big public festivals (like Brighton Pride) but Notting hill is just seeming to get more sinister each year.

Time to cancel the festival for 1 year, sit down and re think how this could be made into a ticketed festival in 2020. The price of the ticket will help pay for the extra policing and security, fencing and security around the cordoned off area and contribute towards charities the festival supports. Think Hyde park concerts in the park type event, we need to keep people safe.

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 29/08/2018 11:19

LuluJakey1

Who would like that outside their house?

Nobody. Which is why I wouldn't live there. You won't be able to stop those idiots behaving as they do.... so rather than suffer some people behaving like dogs. I agree its not nice at all.

All those people in the area for a weekend are bound to have a negative impact on the residents.

One weekend a month is enough for me to decide not to live in a place.

CarolDanvers · 29/08/2018 11:20

Believe me it's the same in reverse, when people keep expressing reasoned views, relating to lived experience only to have them dismissed as racist.

Faultymain5 · 29/08/2018 11:27

Weapons at a carnival? Something is seriously skewed.

No weapons should be at schools either, you shouldn't pick up fish and chips and be stabbed on the way home either.

You shouldn't be walking home from work as a youth worker and be murdered either. Things are very skewered, indeed. I'm

We shouldn't feel like we are living in the wild West, but we do. Unfortunately we can't stop the reality of life.

Ummmmgogo · 29/08/2018 11:30

@carol it really really isn't. when i see you as concerned about white on white crime i'll believe that.

if its any consolation i do believe that you genuinely believe that you are not being racist.

CarolDanvers · 29/08/2018 13:17

I know I am not being. I refuse to go into anymore explanations, it's just repeating arguments, but I am rather disgusted by your attempts to force others to believe they are being in order to basically shut down this discussion and have the last word. There's no where else for the discussion to go apart from the person you've accused of racism to deny it and then the focus becomes on that and they fear saying any more. Very cheap and I won't engage with it any further.

serbska · 29/08/2018 13:26

@Ummmmgogo When you have nothing sensible to debate, you start on the whataboutism. It just derails things. It is a (not especially clever) logical fallacy.

bridgetoc · 29/08/2018 14:10

I'm afraid to say that Bluelady has pulled the race card. Always a sure sign that someone has lost the arguement.

Bluelady · 29/08/2018 14:19

How bloody dare you? Show me where I've played the race card. Quote please.

Faultymain5 · 29/08/2018 14:24

pretending race has no place in the conversation is imo not sensible. Accusing people of playing the race card, is annoying. I'm black, my life is not a game. That phrase is synonymous with accusing a person of exaggerating their life experience. Stop doing that. You don't want to be called a racist? Fine, then don't call black people liars. You don't live their lives.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 29/08/2018 14:29

" I'm afraid to say that Bluelady has pulled the race card. Always a sure sign that someone has lost the arguement."

oh please..'pulled the race card' what an offensive little phrase trotted out by idiots.

Bluelady · 29/08/2018 14:33

I'm still waiting for her to show me where I'm alleged to have done it. It's an outrageous thing to say.

CarolDanvers · 29/08/2018 14:35

So basically this event is above criticism or even discussion because it's mainly attended by black people and has its roots in their cultures? Or is it just white people that shouldn't discuss or criticise or suggest amendments to this particular event because we just don't understand its significance, even though we live and work in the area and have for decades? And if we do actually criticise it then we are racist?

Because that's what I am getting from this thread. I think anyone would struggle to find anything racist in my posts so I have to assume that the very act of discussing in a not wholly positive way and expressing my concerns is construed as racist.

CarolDanvers · 29/08/2018 14:38

Agree that "playing the race card" is an offensive and reductive term and I am really surprised that anyone would think it ok to use.

CarolDanvers · 29/08/2018 14:40

You don't want to be called a racist? Fine, then don't call black people liars. You don't live their lives.

I've been called a racist on this thread. I've called no one a liar or attempted to diminish their lives and experiences.

Bluelady · 29/08/2018 14:43

I haven't seen any racism on this thread. It's all been pretty measured. Until that offensive comment about "playing the race card".

karyatide · 29/08/2018 14:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bluelady · 29/08/2018 14:49

If you can find racism on this thread, feel free to point us in its direction.

Faultymain5 · 29/08/2018 15:02

So basically this event is above criticism or even discussion because it's mainly attended by black people and has its roots in their cultures? Who said that?

Or is it just white people that shouldn't discuss or criticise or suggest amendments to this particular event because we just don't understand its significance, even though we live and work in the area and have for decades?

Who said that?

And if we do actually criticise it then we are racist Not sure, but did anyone say that as well? Open to suggestions, so far I personally don't like what has been suggested. Doesn't mean you should stop.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 29/08/2018 15:03

I don't know the colour or creed of the folks who make the noise or drop the litter. Nor of those who decided to close the local tube stations for 2 days, or those who have robbed or damaged properties and businesses. I don't know or care to be honest.

The carnival is more like St Partick's Day or Pride... much wider in its appeal than the original audiences and much larger than in the early days. It is too big these days and not every local (of all colours and backgrounds) wants to attend or have their lives disrupted (not everyone can afford to board up and go away for the weekend). The carnival zone gets bigger every year.

CarolDanvers · 29/08/2018 15:12

@Faultymain5

I've been told I am being racist for the things I have posted. That I am racist without realising it, so therefore as I have expressed NO racism (I believe) I have to assume that having not entirely positive views on Carnival is inherently racist and the very act of discussing it is too. Have you actually read the thread?

Ummmmgogo · 29/08/2018 15:23

no you are just not interested in hearing that you and many others were accidentally racist. people have been very gracious repeatedly trying to explain, but when racism is part of yours and your children's daily lives it gets tedious coming on mumsnet to read more of it.

to summarise, ticketing takes away from the inclusive and spontaneous nature of the event. moving to hyde park takes away from the origins of celebrating the community, charging is just a pisstake frankly, saying you don't know any well off black people is offensive sterotyping, claiming people are playing the race card is horrible, saying we arent interested in debating white on white violence/vandalism makes it seem like you are judging the black community for things that you excuse in white people.

nailak · 29/08/2018 15:26

For all those who said they went to carnival and they felt it was "menacing" or "unsafe" that's your individual feelings. Carnival is not responsible for that. The people enjoying carnival are not responsible for that.
That's your interpretation of viewing groups of youngsters as thugs, viewing the dancing and interaction between strangers as being strange or harassment, viewing the sound systems as threatening.

My mum used to take us regularly to carnival on children's day (Sunday), I have memories of being 5 years old on an uncles shoulder there. As I got older (13) I would wonder around and discover the sound systems and then rejoin my family. Then I went by myself with my friends from the time I was about 16, we weren't really that bothered about the parade and spent most of the time at different sound systems.
I never felt threatened. However I would make sure I left before dark. I have happy memories of carnival.

To those of you who are concerned about drug dealing and knife crime etc. That's a normal part of life for those in London urban areas. If there was that amount of stop and searches in one day in Newham, or Barking and Dagenham, or Tower Hamlets you would find the same amount of weapons and drugs.
That isn't a carnival issue, it's a poverty, child exploitation, social mobility, education issue. Carnival does not cause violence.
Have you seen the videos of the knife fights that are happening in busy high streets daily?
All the boys and young men who have died in London this year, that's nothing to do with carnival.
In my local park a 13 year old was stabbed to death by other 13 year olds.
Violence at Carnival isn't higher then violence at any other time and place, it is in fact lower.

Black History is all of our History.
The whole point of carnival is to celebrate one of the only places Black people were made welcome. To celebrate and remember some of the first established black communities in the UK. Even as a child I knew that. You can't ignore the point of an event when deciding to change it.
You can't ignore statistics when deciding it's unsafe.

Faultymain5 · 29/08/2018 15:31

@CarolDanvers have you? If you had you'd see that I've been on the thread quite early on.

Because you don't feel that you are racist, intentional or otherwise, doesn't necessarily mean that you are not (or that you are), and it definitely doesn't mean that you don't have a right to comment. It's not the correct assumption to make.

Look we all have certain ideas about things based on our life experience or lack thereof, doesn't mean we're always right or always wrong.

OutComeTheWolves · 29/08/2018 15:44

This is an interesting thread but the people who are denying that race plays a part in the NHC are being ridiculous. Especially alongside other posts discussing those 'groups of people' being 'aggressively sexual' and comparing homeowners moving into gentrified areas with first generation AC immigrants who were turned away from most other areas of London.

I also personally believe anyone who has purchased a property there in at least the last 18 years doesn't really get a say in the matter. I wouldn't buy a house next to Heathrow and then complain about the planes overhead every day.

Anyway imo the simplest solution is usually the best one too. Surely the met police (who want the event to be as safe as possible) should be liasing (sp?) with the community leaders and volunteers (who presumably want the event to continue) with a view to hear their ideas on how they see the event continuing into the future and how they think it should be made safer. You know listening to the people who know most about the carnival and then working with them.

abacucat · 29/08/2018 16:07

nailak I found it unsafe because of the clear crushing risk. Nothing to do with the issues you raise.
And something has been done. The events company who organised carnival this year seem to be much more professional and have organised a safer carnival.