to think that back sleeping guidelines are taking the piss

[extrastrongnosugar]

on my third baby here, just got him fresh from the hospital and its day four. and night four with 1-2hr sleep totals for me. its 3am now and i had 45min so far. hes fast asleep after nursing on me but once i lay him to bed, nicely swaddled with rolled up tetras on the side for a lovely huggy feeling, he inevitably wakes up and starts crying. i am now rembembering that with number 2 i didnt even try. am just reading up on the guidelines again and tgey basically admit the reason back sleeping prevents infant death sybdrome is because it prevents deep sleep and that most babys prefer to sleep on their belly. i love it that they recommend back sleeping until year one, completely oblivious to the fact that a baby that wont sleep on its back will sleep on the mother - which is much riskier and also nice for pretending a person can go a year without sleep and not become homicidal. AIBU to think back sleeping is completely impractical advice that doesnt take into account other risk factors and follow a kind of stupid circular logic? i have another suggestion: if deep sleep is so dangerous lets just all wake up our babies every hour - at least that way well get a full hours sleep now and then!

NotTired my baby was the exact opposite! they are their own little people already, knowing what they like and don't.

YABU to think that the “back to sleep” guidelines are taking the piss - they have saved so many babies’ lives.

^This

Yep! And it's trial and error until we get it right which is exhausting!

Please watch this video of Anne Diamond talking about the Back to Sleep campaign, this is why it's important that your baby sleeps on their back.

OP ignore the scaremongering posts and do what works for your family.

Day 2 of new baby sleeping on his back saw him choking horribly on his vomit (even with cot tilted etc) for which we did call 999 as he wasn't breathing at all for a few mins. However I could also see front wasn't going to work either.

I had to hold him on my chest/ in the crook of my arm for the first 6 weeks, bf ing, lots of biological nursing which helped. It's extremely difficult if they're refluxy.

Co sleeping all the way here.

My first baby lasted 10 minutes in the cot, I did,n't even have a cot for my second- straight into bed with me.

My little one didn't sleep away from me at all until I bought a chicco next to.me. sometimes I fed her on me and let her fall asleep and then rolled her into the side cot.

I put all mine to sleep on their sides. I did it in hospital too and in front of HV and they all said it was fine. None of them liked sleeping on their backs. I was a front sleeper according to my mother, no matter what she did i ended up on my front. Still like it now!
All my kids were very large though, and had some head control from birth, which I think helped.

I have so much sympathy with you. Mine was a hideously uncomfortable on his back and screamed like a banshee every time I’d put him down to sleep... for the first year, and was waking multiple times still at 3yrs.

The problem is that they need to provide much better support for those mums & babies who are having problems, rather than letting them suffer through hell and acting like you’re being shockingly unreasonable when you just can’t cope and are scared of suffocating them via sleep deprivation.

I remember the happiness when ds got to 5 months and broke the 45min barrier of sleep, oh happy days! I was genuinely so happy, as with 45 mins I could get maybe 30 mins of sleep if I was lucky, as I was so jittery and freaked out by then, that I couldn’t sleep easily even though I really needed every second I could grab.

I’m sure ds had silent reflux, but I couldn’t get anyone to help him, or me. Just a load of crap fobbing me off and minimising the hell we were going through.

I think all health visitors and GPs should spend 3 days and nights with a baby who genuinely won’t sleep, and then maybe the trite crap wouldn’t come out of their mouths so often!

Very informative thread.
With my first , she was happy to sleep on her back from day one and slept through from 4 months. I have always worried about sids, I don't know why. I constantly checked her through the night when she started to sleep through, I always wanted her to wake up for a feed!
My now 5 month old is the complete opposite. Only wants to be held.
I have fallen asleep with her in my arms and woke up in a very dangerous position.
I had to buy the sleepyhead as was so worried it would happen again.
She doesn't sleep that well but will not go into a cot.
I constantly worry about her in the sleepyhead as she's in the bigger one and buries her face into the side
I sometimes bring her into bed and she sleeps on my chest but this worries me too!
My mattress is too soft to safety co sleep.

For some babies, putting your baby to sleep on their back seems as achievable as being told that the gold standard for risk free sleep is to hold the baby on a 45 degree angle while squatting on one foot.

Why do you think most parents find it impossible to sleep their babies on their backs? Mine had no problem with it and I don’t know anyone else who struggled either. Perhaps there is another issue that you are unaware of preventing your baby from feeling comfortable on his or her back?

You could try propping up the Moses basket at the head end slightly?

so what about all the many times that im almost falling asleep while baby is nursing- sleeping on me?

That was a worry for me - we ended up co-sleeping eldest was Velcro baby and would just keep screaming never settle in cot till much older.

I was lucky MW and HV helped us make co-sleeping with babies on back as safe as possible and I was bf.

Second baby new area HV was bloody awful about it - you will kill your child - followed by it would be safer to fall asleep on sofa feeding them which is absolutely not true it's one of the most dangerous things you can do followed by month of pressure to stop bf and wean early.

I still wouldn't put a baby on their front - but might be worth trying to prop up mattress slightly so slight tilt see if that helps. One of mine, second would sleep in bouncy chair or slightly propped up pushchair or slight raise mattress for part of the night - though post bf at night would usually then co-sleep in main bed but dead flat wouldn’t.

I sometimes bring her into bed and she sleeps on my chest but this worries me too!

I used to sleep on my side - breast about height of baby head- with baby on back. DH sleep on floor or opposite way round in bed when slightly older and I'd naturally curl round them - with just blankets on us.

They all sleep better on their mum than in the cot at 4 days though

I really feel for you, OP, you're obviously knackered but how many babies sleep well at 4 days?

@OrgyOfBarminess that sounds like reflux. I had an awful time with DS1 with it, he couldn't sleep on his back at all.

My daughter slept on her back quite happily although as soon as she could roll she started sleeping on her front or side. Some babies do hate it and my friends who have had that have coslept with the baby on his/her side. Like I say I do sympathise with your obvious knackeredness but you can't expect a four day old baby to sleep for any real length of time whatever position they're in.

Both my babies have been fine at sleeping on their backs
My second who is now 7 months old didn’t like it st first but I rolled up two cellular blankets in her crib and put them either side of her and it helped her feel more ‘snuggled and safe’ when she would be asleep I would then remove the blankets.
Also in the day I would do my best not to just sit there cuddling her, if she as asleep I put her down in her basket. If people arrived to see her, they only got a cuddle if she was awake. And as soon as she was asleep laid back down again (this was about the first week to 10days) then I was less strict with that any by then she didn’t need the rolled up blankets each side. Also always used a muslin square that I slept with the night before under her as a sheet almost as it smelled of me and could be whipped away if she was sick without having to fully change her sheets.

Take the help that is offered and get your head down during the day.

DS had reflux and would only sleep on our chests, so we slept in shifts for the first three months - I was lucky in that DP considered it to be his equal responsibility despite working during the day. I don’t know how single mums, or those with husbands who won’t help, manage.

At about 3 months we caved and let DS sleep on his front and he did sleep much better. We had an angelcare breathing monitor in his cot which I found reassuring.

Why do you think most parents find it impossible to sleep their babies on their backs? Mine had no problem with it and I don’t know anyone else who struggled either. Perhaps there is another issue that you are unaware of preventing your baby from feeling comfortable on his or her back?

I think people don't talk about finding it hard to put babies down on their backs because they feel they will be judged for being a bad parent.

This thread shows that lots of people simply don't understand what it's like to have a baby who won't sleep on their backs. Just because your baby was happy to, doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. There seem to be lots of posts implying OP and others like her are doing something wrong or have unrealistic expectations. I didn't expect to put my babies down on their and have them automatically sleep through the night. I just would have been happy to get any sleep at all. My babies would not sleep on their backs. You can't judge a parent until you have stood in their shoes.

HV recommended to take a hot water bottle and wrap it in a teatowel and lie it in the cot 30 mins before bed. Take out andd make sure the bed isn't too warm before putting baby in. It makes the transition from mummy to crib a lot easier if it's nice and warm for them. Also to put your shirt around the matress so it smells like you but can't cover their face.

so what about all the many times that im almost falling asleep while baby is nursing- sleeping on me? i think its a serious risk that my current monster tits could suffocate baby as they are about three times the size of his head. no joke- how would you all go about mitigating that risk?

You could nurse laying down (google so you can see how baby should be positioned). This is safer than falling asleep accidentally while baby is sleeping on you.

Make sure you are set up for safe co-sleeping and then if you fall asleep this way at least it’s the safest way possible. It also means you may be able to feed to sleep and then ‘sneak away’ leaving baby on their back. Would work if you feed in a side cot or doable in a bed (obviously less safe) following co-sleeping guidelines-
Only if breastfed
No alcohol/no smoking/no drugs
Firm mattesss
No quilt
No pillows
Nothing baby can get trapped between (such as bed and wall)
Read up as there may be other things I’ve missed and you obviously need to read all the pros and cons and make an informed decision.

I think statically safe co-sleeping is less riskier than putting baby on front to sleep.

Speaking from having had my children before these guidelines, so mine slept whichever way they were happy, including Co sleeping - I would have been worried about inhaling vomit with them on their backs. Quite apart from sleep deprivation in the adult, how does it affect a new baby to be sleep deprived because it can’t sleep on its back?