to think that back sleeping guidelines are taking the piss

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on my third baby here, just got him fresh from the hospital and its day four. and night four with 1-2hr sleep totals for me. its 3am now and i had 45min so far. hes fast asleep after nursing on me but once i lay him to bed, nicely swaddled with rolled up tetras on the side for a lovely huggy feeling, he inevitably wakes up and starts crying. i am now rembembering that with number 2 i didnt even try. am just reading up on the guidelines again and tgey basically admit the reason back sleeping prevents infant death sybdrome is because it prevents deep sleep and that most babys prefer to sleep on their belly. i love it that they recommend back sleeping until year one, completely oblivious to the fact that a baby that wont sleep on its back will sleep on the mother - which is much riskier and also nice for pretending a person can go a year without sleep and not become homicidal. AIBU to think back sleeping is completely impractical advice that doesnt take into account other risk factors and follow a kind of stupid circular logic? i have another suggestion: if deep sleep is so dangerous lets just all wake up our babies every hour - at least that way well get a full hours sleep now and then!

OP, YABU.

It's simply a fact - a very difficult fact for the parents, but a fact nonetheless - that it is dangerous for babies, especially very young babies, to sleep too deeply. They need to be able to arouse easily. This is also thought to be one of the reasons for the reduction in SUDS risk with bf.
Back sleeping is the single most important risk reduction factor, I think more important even than not smoking (which is pretty damn important, given that 60% of current SIDS deaths are thought to be connected to smoke exposure during pregnanca or after birth). In a way, front sleeping a young baby is equivalent to taking them in a car without a car seat. Most of the time it's fine. But on the rare occasion there's an accident, it's devastating.

I wish 'sleeping through' weren't such a parenting holy grail. The baby who doesn't 'sleep through' for at least their first year is behaving physiologically. (And of course that doesn't preclude individual babies sleeping through a lot earlier, because that is normal for them. My third wasn't sleeping through until two and a half. That was what was normal for her). She used to gravitate to her side when sleeping. I didn't start actually putting her down that way until she was heading for a year. And when she was very young I would gently roll her back onto her back. Sometimes it disturbed her. Her sleep was dreadful - despite co-sleeping she would wake up 5 or 6 times a night until well into her second year. It sucked, but it was what had to be done.

When mine were tiny I’d have a seperate sleep area on the bed for them (no duvet, blankets etc). I’d breast feed them laying down in that area then ease back to mine once they’d finished the feed and fallen asleep so they were usually swaddled and on their sides at that point.

When they got older they’d only settle on their tummies to sleep if being put down awake. I think it’s all a balancing act. Stick to the guidelines if they work but ultimately we all do what works for us as a family.

2 of my babies had the most dreadful reflux that they would not sleep on their backs, they would literally scream in agony when on their backs. I spent the first 4 months of their lives awake and watching them sleep on their tummies. I was exhausted but too tired to safely co-sleep and I couldn’t bear the high pitched constant screaming of them on their backs or the constant crying because they were exhausted from not sleeping when on their backs. Fortunately they both started rolling by themselves at 4 months so I was able to get some sleep whilst they slept (but I would still wake regularly to check that they were breathing okay).
The main bit about the guidelines which is ridiculous is that they should sleep on their backs for the first 12 months - a rolling baby who hates back sleeping will not sleep on their backs for anywhere near 12 months.

When mine was tiny and waking every 10-30 minutes, I was terrified of falling asleep feeding him, especially as we had a SIDS death in our family.

Obviously, it finally happened and I still remember the horrible feeling of waking up and realising, and the relief that everything was ok.

I set an alarm on my phone to go off every five minutes so it didn’t happen again. Not much fun, but solved the problem.

The NHS guidelines clearly state that once the baby can roll over independently, there is no longer any need for them to sleep on their back.

As long as they're in a safe environment- ie good mattress, cool temperature, safe bedding, no hazards in cot, none smoking house etc - there is no need to be getting up to check on them or move them back to their stomachs.

For most babies (not all) this is around 5-6 months. It's a brutal time (and one of many reasons I would never have a second child), but it's not a year.

Give it a year and it will change again
Not this one. This is clearly better for babies and has been advised for at least the 12 years since I had my first child.

I don't even know how I would have gone about putting a baby on its front to sleep. They were either cradled in my arms, leaning against my front with their tummy to mine. In either case you stand up and gradually lay them down on their back. I'd have actually had to twist them over awkwardly to allow them to go on their front.

Agreed Artichoke. This has been the guidance in the UK since 1991. I remember Anne Diamond losing her baby. Terribly sad.

DD didn't STTN until she was about 18 months, but there was no way I would have risked it. I didn't want to add to the paranoia that many of us feel in the early days.

Good luck OP.

With the theory that SIDS is due to being unable to rouse from deep sleep I don't think I would let a young baby sleep through, I'd have set an alarm to wake them.

When my reflux babies were little the advice was that back sleeping was safest for the first 12 months although it was acknowledged that it was impractical once a baby was independently rolling. So whilst the advice now is that it is safe to leave them on their backs if they are rolling, it was said at the time that back sleeping was safest for the first 12 months.

Will he sleep on his side OP? My baby is 7 weeks and he whinges with discomfort if put down on his back but goes straight to sleep on his side. So I have been putting him down on his side in the sleepyhead and then once he's asleep gently nudging him so that he is sort of between his back and his side (if I nudge too far he wakes up) and then I shove a rolled up muslin in front of his tummy so that he can't roll onto his front. Bit of a palava but it's making me feel better and usually by the time he wakes up he has rolled almost onto his back.

He’s 4 days old. He doesn’t give a shit if he’s on his back or his front, at the moment he doesn’t like sleeping anywhere that isn’t inside your uterus.

YANBU to be exhausted, but YABU to disparage guidelines that have cut SIDS deaths by half.

Where is your OH in this? Just do shifts at night for these first few days and at 2 weeks it will get a little easier.

DD rolled onto her side to sleep from newborn, she still sleeps on her side now at 2. When I asked the HV what I should do about her rolling, because I was so paranoid about the back to sleep thing, HV helpfully suggested I just roll her onto her back every time she did it, so I should never sleep then?! We coslept in the end, it was the only way I was going to get any sleep at all. It's difficult because obviously you want the best for your baby, you want them to be as safe as possible, but you also need to sleep for your own health. Almost two years of broken sleep has destroyed me, I feel like I have 1/4 of a brain, it takes me a good two hours to get going properly in the mornings and my MH has taken a nosedive. I don't think anyone can understand how horrific long term sleep deprivation is unless they've been through it, no one seems to acknowledge how hard it will be if you have a non sleeping baby. There's not much that can be done though.

The reason for 'the first 12 months' is that statistically, almost all SIDS deaths happen in the first 12 months (with a tiny handful happening over 1). So once the baby's over 6 months/rolling independently it's simply a matter of it being safest to put them down on their backs.

The guidelines aren't "taking the piss", even though I totally understand how you feel. The thing is, guidelines don't always work in real life.
DS1 was very prem and started rolling over in his sleep at just 4 months corrected. I called my paediatrician in a panic, asking her what I was supposed to do to stop him sleeping on his front. She said there wasn't anything I could do. So I had a high risk baby sleeping on his front from a tiny age - you can imagine how anxious I was. At that point, I did feel the guidelines were taking the piss!
No advice, sorry. I hope it gets better for you soon!

Well it has been proven to be safest, but it’s only guidelines no one is going to break into your house and check you’re following them. I always put mine on their back but they both slept OK that way.

So gently YABU as these guidelines do save lives but it’s up to you

On the one hand, YABVU and stupid, because it's proved to prevent cot death. Also, mine had no problem doing this, and they are very normal kids, I've never heard of anybody actually have a problem with this IRL.

My parents lost my sister to cot death, but it was in the 70s, when babies were put to sleep on their fronts.

On the other hand, YANBU because you must be shattered and you just gave birth.

YANBU but nor are the guidelines. When ds2 was very poorly and only slept on his side. His paediatrician told me not to worry as the guidelines are just a guide and as long as I'm following every other rule the risk is low already.

He also said that of the four cases of SIDS in the area over (I can't remember how many) years, all four had either a parent who smoked, drank or both. And that the guidelines also included smoking outside and not drinking when caring for a baby, which he personally thinks caused the dramatic reduction.

I'm not saying to live by his words, but they are worth considering if you think your child is at greater risk by cosleeping

YABU - if its going to prevent my baby dying in its sleep then I couldn't give a shit how inconvenient it is for me.

They're guidelines not laws. You have a choice: you can massively reduce your chance of SIDS by putting your baby on it's back or you can improve your baby's sleep (which benefits brain development and parental sanity) by laying your baby on it's front. My first would only sleep on me - never in his crib front or back.

For what it's worth although it doesn't work for everyone the guidelines have saved thousands of baby's lives - look at the statistics so YABU to moan about them. YANBU if you've tried and they don't work for you.

It's one of those things where your damned if you do, damned if you don't. I understand the guidelines, but if you have a baby that literally will not sleep on their back, are you just supposed to not sleep ever?

Both of mine had reflux and would not settle on their backs. I had 6 weeks of hell, sleeping 2-3 hours a night with DC1 until it was diagnosed and the right medication sorted. Before that, I did sometimes put her on her back, but with a very thin rolled up towel under the sheet so she was very slightly tipped to one side and she did sleep better like that.

DC2 wouldn't lie in her basket at all without screaming. I had no sleep at all. Like you, I was breastfeeding and found myself falling asleep sitting up holding her every night. I thought this was even more dangerous so I looked up safe co-sleeping as I thought that would be less dangerous.

Every mother wants to keep their baby safe and I would love to have been able to follow the guidelines but it is physically impossible to manage without any sleep.

darcey side sleeping has been shown to carry similar risks to front sleeping.

DS2 was a total non sleeper. I had a co sleeping crib attached to the bed that I can only assume had it’s own electricity supply as when I laid him in it, he would scream and squirm as though it had shocked him. No sleep was ever had in the bloody (expensive) crib.

What I ended up doing was co sleeping with him laid on my chest. I put a bank of cushions behind me and supported him on either side with my arms and we slept. It must have looked cute but for me it nearly killed me. I didn’t get to have a proper sleep again until he was in his own room at 6 months.

wish 'sleeping through' weren't such a parenting holy grail. The baby who doesn't 'sleep through' for at least their first year is behaving physiologically. (And of course that doesn't preclude individual babies sleeping through a lot earlier, because that is normal forthem.

Couldn't agree more! The amount of threads you see with weeks old babies waking up and mothers asking what routine to follow! One of my DC slept through from about 3 months and one nor until 3 years!