to think that back sleeping guidelines are taking the piss

[extrastrongnosugar]

on my third baby here, just got him fresh from the hospital and its day four. and night four with 1-2hr sleep totals for me. its 3am now and i had 45min so far. hes fast asleep after nursing on me but once i lay him to bed, nicely swaddled with rolled up tetras on the side for a lovely huggy feeling, he inevitably wakes up and starts crying. i am now rembembering that with number 2 i didnt even try. am just reading up on the guidelines again and tgey basically admit the reason back sleeping prevents infant death sybdrome is because it prevents deep sleep and that most babys prefer to sleep on their belly. i love it that they recommend back sleeping until year one, completely oblivious to the fact that a baby that wont sleep on its back will sleep on the mother - which is much riskier and also nice for pretending a person can go a year without sleep and not become homicidal. AIBU to think back sleeping is completely impractical advice that doesnt take into account other risk factors and follow a kind of stupid circular logic? i have another suggestion: if deep sleep is so dangerous lets just all wake up our babies every hour - at least that way well get a full hours sleep now and then!

Give it a year and it will change again

extrastrong my baby slept on his back, 8 years later and he still does, hates being on his front lol

coolaschmoola that just scares the hell out of me im so sorry that your family had to go through this.
by taking the piss i guess i mean that i think its not enough to just throw a guideline like that out there, one that most parents find almost impossible to live by and that completely fails to adress the real cost of following that guideline i.e. babys that will not sleep on the back will sleep somewhere: on the mothers chest or in arm at night in bed when most chances are said mum hasnt slept more than 5 hrs a day in ages and of course not in one piece.
for a guideline that demands something this extreme from a mother i would expect it to talk about the risk of suffocating a baby when falling asleep with it also and help mums make a decision how to weigh both of these risks each instance.

Mine all slept on their backs.

If they cried when put down following a feed then it was usually a bit of wind gathering. I would wind them on my shoulder for a few minutes, put them down again on their backs and they were usually fine again.

I think it was after about 6 months they could roll themselves, and did sometimes, but generally liked being on their backs.

Please don't call in taking the piss. I remember the "Back to Sleep" campaign being introduced following a spate of dead babies, some of them high profile. The rate of SIDS has dropped dramatically since then.

We have had to reach a compromise in this house. My LO was allowed to sleep on her front in the hospital because she was monitored. She does not like being on her back. We have now compromised and let her settle on her front before flipping her like a pancake onto her back. Ofcourse it makes the night feeds that bit longer because I have to stay up to monitor her but at least we sleep inbetween time.

Formula wise we are another for storing one or two feeds in the fridge. My HV actually pointed out where in the guidelines it said it was ok to do this because I broke down on her about trying to make them when needed. I have a health problem which makes making them when needed extremely difficult.

You are talking absolute bollocks, but you are clearly sleep deprived. Why don’t you just do what you want? Seriously it is your 3rd child. These guidelines have saved lives. But you can actually do whatever you want.

For those who have babies who are struggling to sleep. Try playing this white noise video near to them. It helps my baby a lot.

Going back over the past 30 years + The advice used to be sleep them in different positions so their heads are not misshapen and grow properly. Then it was put them on their fronts because it’s dangerous to sleep on their backs if they vomit. Swaddle them, or don’t swaddle them ...on and on. All this guidance is apparently backed up by research.
It’s a nightmare for any mum. I’ve come to the conclusion don’t read books, they all erode your natural instinct to look at your baby and act accordingly.
Just use your common sense. Babies, even newborns, are not inert. They lift or roll their heads, flail their arms and legs etc. Some sleep best in one position, others differently. Some like swaddling tight, others hate it.
Let’s learn to trust ourselves with our children again.

Back to sleep is literally THE most effective action to reduce SIDS. Do not play with your new baby's safety! YABU!

I can't wait for DD to start rolling. She settles on her back ok at the start of the night but becomes increasingly unsettled. We do often end up cosleeping. I think planned cosleeping is safer than falling asleep holding a baby.

To clarify some misinformation here - the recommendation is to put the baby to sleep on their back. You don't have to constantly roll them back over if they move in their sleep. But after each waking when you put them back down, lay them on their back.

With DS1 I didn’t follow the stay in the same room thing because I wasn’t getting any sleep with him with us. The midwife told me they were only guidelines and my guilt at not sticking to the rules disappeared.

I did always put them in their backs though...

I ignored the advice about DDs sleeping in your room for 6 months, because they both outgrew their moses baskets by about ten weeks old and the cot bed didn't fit in our room. They slept beautifully in the cot bed too and we all felt much better.

OP you should speak to GP about possible 'silent reflux'. Our 10 week old has it and hates being completely flat so we have a 'wedge pillow' under her head & shoulders, she's on medication for it too which helps

Well according to the guidelines you shouldn't have swaddled or used the tetras either. It might be sound advice but I don't think it's supposed to all be followed at the same time. The risk is also increased if you formula feed or if they've come into contact with someone who's smoked in the last hour, it's clearly not possible to follow everything. Correlation isn't causation and sleep is important for both of you so do whatever you need to.

If sids is babies sleeping too deeply then putting those that sleep particularly deeply on their backs would help. But a poor sleeper on their front is unlikely to be sleeping more deeply than a good sleeper on their back.

Personally I was happy to sleep on front because she would easily turn her head from side to side in her sleep, so I thought her unlikely to suffocate and thought her sleeping was worth the risk, but that's me.

also: are there any more parents whose babies were happy sleeping on the back? i need evidence those unicorns exist!

uuhhmm, yes lots of babies. It's just really unfortunate that yours is not one of them. And that's terrible, it sucks balls. It really does as sleep deprivation is a form of torture.

Mine slept happily on their backs. Deep sleep as well. They went to sleep with a dummy and fell asleep, dummy would obviously fall out as they relaxed in their sleep and they didn't even wake wanting the dummy back in. One only had the dummy to go to sleep, did not have it at any other time when they were awake, they were just not interested in it. The other was a dummy addict with it in all the time unless asleep and it had fallen out.

Even when they could flip they did not sleep on their tummies. They slept on their backs. As teens/young adults one still does, will only sleep on their back. The other either sleeps on their back or their side. As do I, can't fathom the thought of sleeping on my stomach but plenty of people do.

Our 10 week old has it and hates being completely flat so we have a 'wedge pillow' under her head & shoulders, she's on medication for it too which helps

Yes, one of mine was the same including the meds. We had an approved wedge for under the mattress and also had the cot head on risers so they were on a steep downhill slope but with secured so they could not slip down the cot.

*was secured
We had a hospital OT do the set up.

Oh OP, he’s 4 days old! He just wants to be on his mummy because that’s all he knows, and because it feels warm and safe and familiar rather than a cold empty cot.

I know how hard it is - I have a non-sleeper this time around too! - and it’s absolutely brutal. But yabu to blame sleep guidelines that save the lives of babies, even though you have to get some sleep. Can you do safe co-sleeping or get someone to help at night if your partner can’t do it?

It doesn’t stop them sleeping - it prevents such deep sleep that they forget to breathe. I know you’re knackered. But the Back To Sleep campaign reduced the rate of SIDS by 81% overnight. 81! So many lives saved.

www.lullabytrust.org.uk/the-lullaby-trust-celebrates-25th-anniversary-of-back-to-sleep-campaign/

Wow I missed the bit where he’s only 4 days old.

It was about this time we put DS1 in his own room, and with DS2 I went to my brothers wedding and I stayed awake all night while he slept on me. Just take each night as it comes.

It’s still very early days, enjoy the newborn snuggles.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/26/back-to-sleep-sudden-infant-death-syndrome-cot-death-peter-fleming

This article is well worth a read. From 1 in 250 babies a year dying to one in 3000 now. The back to back campaign came out in 1991 after Anne Diamond became involved after the death of her baby. The advice to put babies on their front took off in the 1950s.

I had one dd who did not sleep at all
and one who slept fantastically. I put her on her back in her basket and she slept for hours. I did things with both like put rolled up towels in their baskets to make them snug but front sleeping was just a risk I was not willing to take.

When I was a baby mid 70s it was the advice to put babies to sleep on their tummies. My DM thought we looked so uncomfortable she didn’t do it and we were put on our backs. I now will only fall asleep on my front, that is when my insomnia is not playing up

Good old Anne Diamond, such a shame she had to go through that trauma. I remember it now.

My LG struggled to sleep on her back or in actual fact anywhere that wasn't on me. Things I found to help and worth a try...
Swaddling (which you have done)
Pink noise
Breast pads or Muslins which have been down your bra around the crib (if muslin tucked in so can't be pulled over head)
Rolling a blanket/towel up and putting it in a c shape around her head and down her sides to give a feeling of being snug/secure and a smaller space . Put the blanket/towel in under the bedsheet. (This is the one that worked the most.
Lifting the head of the crib. Midwife pointed out to me when we are holding our babies we hold them head slightly higher so make crib the same.

It does get easier! I found at a few months old LG preferred to side sleep. I had a breathing monitor on so felt a bit more comfortable to leave her to it. However it did go of once in the early days (when she was on her back) the noise reminded her to breath again. Was scary though! Babies forget to breath in the early days so you may notice them breathing really fast for a bit to catch up.

Back to sleep has been proven to be safest but as parents we all have to make judgements on what is best for us and our family and Baby. So no judgement on what you decide. I make my decisions on what I can live with in worst case scenario.
Ie vaccinations- (whole other controversial topic) I vaccinate as if my child was to develop one of the conditions I could prevent I would never be able to forgive myself. However if they had an adverse reaction to vaccination I know I did it in their best interests and my belief at the time.

It does get easier! I'll be back on here in 3 months rime crying looking to know how to get my newborn to sleep. I remember the pain so well some coffee to see you through