Can someone please explain anti-semitism and the Labour Party to me?

[serialtester]

My aibu is that I just really don't understand it all.

The Labour Party should be opposing - not imploding.

What is going on?

Nobody can because it’s all nonsense. There is research to show anti-semitism is lower in the Labour than Tory party and gas reduced since Corbyn took over as leader. It’s Tory owned media looking back over years and years to smear a Corbyn with half truths and out and out lies while ignoring racism, illegality and incompetence in the Tory party right now and in recent months.

But someone will be along to tell you Corbyn is an awful terrorist sympathising racist despite being a peace and anti racism campaigner since forever.

Oh its so bloody depressing. I cant explain the apparent anti semitism any more than I can explain why the Labour party is behaving in a way that will ensure the Tories -who are also split - will be in power for evermore because there's nothing else. A disgraceful state of affairs.

So there is a definition of what constitutes anti Semitic that most of the western world have adopted.
The Labour Party has refused to accept that and have changed some of the terms, as far as I can tell, so they can continue to snipe at Israel.
The whole thing is less than pragmatic to say the least because by getting all hung up on one issue, they’re failing to be an effective opposition when we need one.
Obviously supporters of Palestine or Israel specifically have different views, but in the meantime governing or not governing the UK seems to have disappeared off the agenda.
It’s very frustrating. My mum would say “ throwing the baby out with the bath water”.
And it’s been going on for MONTHS !

Most of the western world has adopted the IHRA definition of anti-semitism? Is there evidence for that?

For what it's worth, I think the IHRA-endorsed definition unfairly equates legitimate criticism of Israel with being anti-Semitic, and I don't think Labour should adopt it in its entirety.

What Cardibach said.

I do not think there are many members of the Labour Party who are anti-semitic. However, the Labour Party is very slow to act when comments are made by any of their members, which gives the impression that they do not care much about this. Indeed they are quicker to act when someone complains about lack of action on the matter, as was shown initially with Margaret Hodge.

I do not think there are many members of the Labour Party who are anti-semitic. Really?

The trouble with that, is right now we need an effective opposition and we don’t seem to have one.
What are labour doing about winning the next election. Where is the clear and united policy on Brexit.
These are the things that a lot of natural Labour voters care more about and I can’t see the answer.
Lots of people want to vote Labour, they just need to be given a bit more than they have at the moment.

There is racism, including anti semetism everywhere but some are using it for their own purposes. To question the Israeli government and Zionism is legitimate, many Jews support the Palestinians. It is unacceptable to deny the holocaust but it is not the only genocide, and not an excuse for oppressing others, or shutting down debate and free speech. Not all, or even most muslims are terrorists, Jeremy corbyn is being smeared. Boris Johnson is evil.

Which research cardibach?

right-wing propaganda

Dh has just shown me a video on his 'phone of Jeremy Corbyn telling an audience that even though 'they' have lived in England all their lives 'they' have no sense of English irony. Also 'they' sat and listened silently to a Palestinian give a speech, but berated him afterwards. Didn't sound particularly like a friend of Jews to me...

The Labour Party has refused to accept that and have changed some of the terms, as far as I can tell, so they can continue to snipe at Israel

I wouldn't class legitimate criticism of the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians as "sniping". Debate of apartheid and human rights violations should be encouraged, not punished.

There is a problem in the Labour Party with antisemitism. There is in society overall, people can be arseholes regardless of their political views. The ratio of complaints to membership numbers is actually lower than in other parties, but that doesn't make a good headline. And regardless of numbers, it does need to be addressed.

They think that if they point out how awful Israel is being to the Palestinians, it somehow lessens the severity of their crimes (and they were very severe) in WW2. Most of us on receiving end have not forgotten. We're in a real tinderbox situation to be honest.

@GnusSitOnCanoes ^ this

Then i copied it here, because i could see how many posts there would be between us

For what it's worth, I think the IHRA-endorsed definition unfairly equates legitimate criticism of Israel with being anti-Semitic, and I don't think Labour should adopt it in its entirety.

serialtester if you're referring to the current row, to me it seems to go something like this:

Some of the media are trying to dig dirt on a person/group they don't like, to favour others they do
Unfortunately there seems a lot of dirt to be found, so they're feeling encouraged
The whole thing's causing a lot of upset to a lot of people
It's also causing angst among those whose idea of right and wrong depends less on what's being done and more on who's doing it

I want someone to explain to me exactly how Corbyn has been anti-Semitic. Is being critical of Israeli politics anti-Semitic?

I just can't believe or understand how this has blown up given the state of the nation at the moment.

Labour MP’s who are Jewish and many Labour Party Supporters who are Jewish feel that the party does not deal with anti semitism that comes from the left of the party who now control the Labour Party and feel their voices are now legitimate

It’s often hidden behind the argument around Israel and Palestine

Yet those who are not anti Semitic don’t need to use language that is so often used by those that are and can be critical of Israel

Corbyn’s Zionist speach stupidly he thinks he is clever enough to think others can’t see through him

But you know all those people must be wrong after all what do they know anti semitism

Tbh I came to the decision if a politician focused on Palestinians and Israel I was not going to vote for them. This was related to issues around a particular local politician a number of years ago but I'm continuing this rule of thumb to the national level.

I want politicians who focus on improving the town or country they represent.

Can I have an explicit and concrete example though??

Anyone who honestly thinks being critical of Israel = being anti semetic needs their head examined.

WTF is wrong with people?!

*Israel's actions

I see what you did there..

Most of the western world has adopted the IHRA definition of anti-semitism? Is there evidence for that?

'The IHRA’s 31 member states are Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States of America.'
antisemitism.uk/31-nations-of-the-international-holocaust-remembrance-alliance-adopt-eumc-definition-of-antisemitism/

"notes that the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism together with its accompanying examples, in full, has the confidence of the representative bodies of the Jewish community in the UK and worldwide; further notes the definition was adopted by IHRA's 31 member states including France, Germany, Canada and the US; welcomes the UK’s adoption of the formal definition and accompanying examples; further recognises that a recommendation formally to adopt a definition was first made in the All-Party Parliamentary Inquiry into Anti-Semitism report of 2006; further welcomes the cross-party support for the definition evidenced in previous motions of this House; recognises that the Welsh and Scottish Governments, the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, London Assembly, and more than 120 local councils and many European countries have formally adopted the definition; recognises that police forces and others have for some time already used the definition for training purposes; notes that civil society organisations including the NUS have adopted the definition; and calls on all public institutions to fully adopt and implement the IHRA definition of antisemitism."
www.parliament.uk/edm/print/2017-19/1493

I just can't believe or understand how this has blown up given the state of the nation ...

But that's exactly the point; the worse the "state" is perceived to be, the harder the digging in order to distract from it - especially when the diggers manage to turn up things of interest

Is being critical of Israeli politics anti-Semitic?

Not in itself, no, but what it sometimes gives rise to certainly is. If you're sincerely interested in the current antisemitism allegations, plenty of better minds than mine have produced lists of examples ... it's all out there if you wish to look for it