Can someone please explain anti-semitism and the Labour Party to me?

[serialtester]

My aibu is that I just really don't understand it all.

The Labour Party should be opposing - not imploding.

What is going on?

I think there is a huge difference between disapproving of Israeli treatment of Palestine, and asserting that the Jews are trying to take over the (financial) world.

I hate hate hate what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. I am not anti Semitic. I feel deeply deeply sorry for Palestinians and wish the rest of the world would stand up for them. Jeremy Corbin seems to be of a similar position but this opinion is always closed down and he is treading on thin lines to defend Palestine. It's a horrible position for him to be in, but he's brace and principled.

I doubt very much Cobyn is anti Semitic. I am not anti Semitic. Sticking up for Palestine and recognising Israels atrocities is essential

disapproving of Israeli treatment of Palestine

All Israelis? So that includes those who oppose the government, oppose settlements? Including the huge number of Israeli Arab citizens?

It is almost funny to see him contort himself to support whatever the Corbyn line is that day.

*brave

Thank you all so much for the replies, I'm still very confused though!

Does this help?

I doubt very much Cobyn is anti Semitic. I am not anti Semitic.

Funny thing about people who loudly proclaim they're not 'anti-Semitic' always reminds me of the people who say 'I'm not racist but'...and saying 'Israel' in that blanket way...

And as for bravery when he has to have armed guards outside his 'places of worship' or at the school for his children then he can talk about being brave! What's so brave about trotting out a mantra, while condoning misogynists and homophobes just because they agree on his position re: 'Palestine'? Straight, white guys, in multi-million pound houses they're so brave.

it's all the fault of the mainstream media

If my post came across that way then it's entirely my fault for putting it badly as this isn't what I meant at all. My point about media bias stands, but it doesn't necessarily follow that what's being reported is wrong - especially when, as you mentioned, there's so much lived experience to back it up

Just as with my example of the supine attitude towards antisemitism in a party, media reports can be accurate and yet still published in pursuit of an agenda

I think because the press are like a pit bull with a bone in its mouth, they just will not let go and shake out every bit of 'proof' they can find.

Also, the fact is, moving to the left as the party has with Corbyn will attract more 'fringe' people, including those who think the Rothschilds are running the world, and so on.

I don't believe Corbyn is actively anti-Semitic, but I do think on some level he believes the Jews are doing all right and don't really need help and support.

As a Jew myself, I do not feel threatened in any way by Corbyn - the Holocaust didn't happen because the Nazis failed to manage anti Semitic elements in their party! The anti semitism was part of their raison d'etre.

I am also a Jew who opposes Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, but has never been comfortable going on protests, as there are too many parties that make me feel uncomfortable, something which has been going on long before Corbyn (people with banners about destroying Israel, people comparing Israel's behaviour to Nazis - yes there is some truth in that, but it is needlessly hurtful and alienating to Jews and will change nothing- and so on). So yes, the left has its own problems with Jews but I'd like all sides looked at, thanks very much.

(JC) is treading on thin lines to defend Palestine. It's a horrible position for him to be in, but he's brave and principled

Frankly, I'd expect anyone "brave and principled" to be talking with both parties to a dispute instead of so clearly favouring just one ... and it's just not happening is it?

My post was in answer to the original post about anti-Semitism and Israel. I won't holiday in Turkey, have no interest in going to America now Trump is President (have been twice), have nothing but revulsion regarding what's happened in Myanmar but I am just one person who cannot police the world.

The difference I find with Israel is the word becomes interchangeable with Jews in a way other conflicts do not. Especially the “I am not anti Semitic just anti Zionist”. Myanmar for example does not follow with a disclaimer that “I am not anti Buddhism but...”

Exactly @Boulshired.

"They're all rich", "they're all the same", "they look after their own" etc etc. If that's not anti-Semitic, I don't know what is.

Back to Labour though.. I sincerely think that no-one outside the media and selected parts of the UK (North London, Manchester, South Herts etc.) gives a damn either way and that makes me sad.

Isn't he against big business and banks etc, which are mostly run by successful Jewish folk.

Somehow, the author of that AAV blog has failed to notice that two of his three studies showing anti-Semitism is greater in the Conservative Party are the same study.

Or at least has written the blog making it look like they are two different studies making slightly different points.

@ TheWernethWife

" I won't have anything in my house that was made in Israel, does that make me anti-Semitic, don't think so..."

Im sure thats not true.. pretty hard to find a computer or phone these days without any componants from Israel.
No disk on key or Windows XP or NT operating systems..??
The list is endless!!

Shalva - will rephrase my answer then - nothing in my house "knowingly" made in Israel.

people comparing Israel's behaviour to Nazis - yes there is some truth in that,

NO there is no truth in that - since when did Jews herd millions of non-Jews in cattle trucks to concentration camps and then systematically kill them? I'm shocked that you as a Jew (and I agree with most of your post, also as a Jew) can write that Echobelly

big business and banks etc, which are mostly run by successful Jewish folk.

'They are not mostly run by successful Jewish folk - that is precisely why it's an age old antiSemitic trope BartholinsSister

In simple terms Jewish money lending began in the Middle Ages when Jews were not allowed to work outside of the ghetto in Venice and non Jews used to borrow money from them. This led to Jewish banking houses forming first in Europe and later the US in the 19th and 20th centuries but most of these are now public companies and no longer owned by Jews.

There has always been an inherent problem with the far left and anti western that manifests itself into antisemitism.

It's looking at the world in simplistic black and white terms, you can look at the many articles about how he can stand up to the antisemitism in the party that he and momentum acknowledge is a problem, you could even hold Corbyn to the same standard of derision when you get the likes of David Duke, Nick Griffin and during the last GE stormfront endorsing him, or you could brush it off as just "smears".

I liked what Mark Steel wrote the other week on this:

“So maybe this is a formula for trying to resolve the matter. We should all agree that a) there is antisemitism on the left, and that hasn’t been conclusively dealt with; b) Opponents of Corbyn have cynically exaggerated this for their own purpose; and c) Both things can be true at once, because as extraordinary as it seems, it’s possible for two different sets of people to both be talking shite.”

people comparing Israel's behaviour to Nazis - yes there is some truth in that

sunshinesupermum has addressed this, but if you really think that Echobelly then you may need to extend your understanding of history: read Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands, Daniel Mendlesohn's The Lost, Richard Evans's work on the Third Reich, and the many many other books detailing the systematic murder/torture/mutilation/dehumanisation of Jewish people. There is a substantial and substantive difference between Israel's policies and those of the National Socialists. It's an appalling suggestion that there might be any comparison.

And maybe part of the problem is that Corbyn and his supporters do not understand what anti-Semitism is, in the same way that Bartholin's example was a prime example of anti-Semitism. It is similar to the lack of understanding behind many instances of 'polite' racism, where people think just because they don't use the n-word that they are not biased. In which case it's up to Corbyn as 'leader' to ensure that this kind of unthinking prejudice is dealt with.

And since when has Mark Steel been a voice of supreme authority and reason on anything? Since Jewish leaders, MPs etc are some of those who have been most vociferous on the issue of anti-Semitism, presumably these are the 'opponents' who are 'talking shite'? Interesting that those from outside the Jewish community think they have the right to decide what is/isn't anti-Semitic. I'm a woman of colour presumably by that logic next time I get targeted for the colour of my skin, I'll check whether it's racism with my white neighbour first.