Can someone please explain anti-semitism and the Labour Party to me?

[serialtester]

My aibu is that I just really don't understand it all.

The Labour Party should be opposing - not imploding.

What is going on?

Steele was criticized heavily for it as well, he has made his career on the back of utilising his point B to maximum effect.

Some of this is the right using the same IDPOL tactics against the originators.

I still agree with Mark Steel on this. There is anti semitism on the Left and it has not been dealt with. However, there are those on the other side who are exploiting it for their own means not because they care about anti semitism.

Steel is saying people are talking shite that there isn’t anti semitism and likewise people are talking shite to not ignore some are exploiting it for their own means and not because they care.

Dh has just shown me a video on his 'phone of Jeremy Corbyn telling an audience that even though 'they' have lived in England all their lives 'they' have no sense of English irony. Also 'they' sat and listened silently to a Palestinian give a speech, but berated him afterwards. Didn't sound particularly like a friend of Jews to me..

@PerfPower, Corbyn started at the start of the comment the ‘they’ he was referring to were Zionists who were in a room filming a talk by a Palestinian. Some argue he was using the word Zionist to mean Jew which would be clearly anti Semitic and some argue he was specifically referring to the people in the room who identified as Zionists. I haven’t found any information yet whether these people identified as Zionists. However, painting a group of people as all having one attitude and being ‘other’ to the country they were born and raised in does not sit well with me.

However, there are those on the other side who are exploiting it for their own means not because they care about anti semitism.

And steel has made his career on the back of exploiting tory problems, hypocrisy in politics is rife across the board hence why you have many Labour MP's railing against private/grammar schooling whilst sending their own children there. But what Steel et al are doing is trying to brush of the antisemitism in their own ranks as "those highlighting it don't really care"

It's funny that the likes of Griffin/Stormfront get ignored yet if they were to come out and endorse the conservatives any reasonable person would expect a substantial amount of astroturfing and making hay of the fact,

When you have to resort to that the other side don't really care, shows more about those defending it than it does those shining a light on the hypocrisy of what the traditional left stand for.

I think it’s undeniable some are exploiting it. I also think it’s undeniable there is an anti semitism problem on the Left. They are not mutually exclusive.

Corbyn started at the start of the comment the ‘they’ he was referring to were Zionists who were in a room filming a talk by a Palestinian. Some argue he was using the word Zionist to mean Jew which would be clearly anti Semitic and some argue he was specifically referring to the people in the room who identified as Zionists. I haven’t found any information yet whether these people identified as Zionists. However, painting a group of people as all having one attitude and being ‘other’ to the country they were born and raised in does not sit well with me.

You are treating it like an isolated incident.

The people with him have quite the past.

Stephen Sizer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Sizer

Daud Abdullah, who between boycotting Holocaust Memorial Day and openly supporting Hamas
www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/08/daud-abdullah-gaza-middle-east

Not quite as black and white as you make out

They are not mutually exclusive.

And when a common factor in the dog whistles/enabling is corbyn, those shouting "smear" look a little blind.

Justanotherlurker, you seem to be making assumptions on what I think about Corbyn. I was referring to the different view points on the latest incident that has come out.

If you want to take it as a whole, yes, Corbyn has shared platforms with the terrorist group Hamas which he shouldn’t have. I think Corbyn has always sided with the group he sees as being persecuted and made a huge error of judgment sharing platforms with hamas.

I think Israel has a right to exist and Palestinians should have their own state. Hamas are terrorists who say they won’t rest until every Jew is thrown in to the sea so are vile and extremists. I hope one day Israel can find peace, working with Hamas will not achieve that.

I was referring to the different view points on the latest incident that has come out.

That's a very generous revisionist statement of your posts on this thread, but if we are to accept you was just putting up the alternative view regarding Corbyn and the OP then so be it.

Um, well, the labour party was infiltrated by momentum, communists and, socialists with the aim of getting Jeremy Corbyn (a life long admirer of oppressive regimes, genocides and terrorists and committed socialist and anti semite) has pulled others of similar mindsets into positions of power within the party with the backing of other political parties, students and unions for their own various reasons. Fortunately many Labour MPs are not downright evil and won't go down without a fight. Is that clear enough?

@togaandsandels he also celebrated recent bloody events in venuzuela, openly sympathised with the IRA, laid wreaths on the graves of Palestinian terrorists, met with the kgb, mourned castro, do I need to go on? Appearing on the same platform as hamas really isn't the half of it. He's an idiot and probably a psychopath.

I'm not any clearer to be honest and there are still no concrete examples of corbyn specifically being anti-Semitic

To be honest I think this whole thing is irrelevant when we have a Tory government who's policies are leading to people going hungry and homeless plus we are seeing the rise of the far right. Labour need to shit or get off the pot.

I'm not any clearer to be honest and there are still no concrete examples of corbyn specifically being anti-Semitic

So Corbyn not being openly antisemitic means you can dismiss it.

To be honest I think this whole thing is irrelevant when we have a Tory government who's policies are leading to people going hungry and homeless plus we are seeing the rise of the far right. Labour need to shit or get off the pot.

Ahhh, that explains it, you should have just started a thread about how evil the Tories are instead of trying faux innocence wrapped up in being politically aware.

plus we are seeing the rise of the far right.

As a reminder, the real far right have all endorsed corbyn.

Stormfront endorsed him in the last general election.
Also Nick Griffin and David Duke has come out in support of him in his recent so called "smear"

I seriously detest Trump, but it shows the hypocrisy that the most vocal of the "not all Trump supporters are racist but all racist support Trump" rhetoric after Duke endorsed him are all of a sudden brushing it under the carpet.

It will be comical in the history books, but right now its hard to adjust to the obvious polarisation and hypocrisy as long is its the correct team

I'm not any clearer to be honest and there are still no concrete examples of corbyn specifically being anti-Semitic

Well first of all either he is/isn't. Even if he isn't he is not a private individual he leads an organisation, he is therefore responsible for the culture of that organisation. He is not doing that. In addition his stubborn stance has tied up the news cycle, no progress is being made in other areas. Blaming opponents of anti-Semitism for that is blatant victim-blaming.

Yes obviously the Tories are bad, but an ineffective opposition, within a party that's riven with divisions, not looking promising as a future prospect for government. Now Corbyn-supporters may think that ridding themselves of the so-called 'red Tories' will fix that, but it won't as the far left groups are all ideologically opposed, some on major issues, some minor, but enough that they will not agree. So it's not clear what the Labour Party actually represents at this point, nor what they will represent in the future.

In addition one of the main issues affecting future prosperity is Brexit which will have a far greater impact on the poor and disadvantaged than adopting/not adopting the IHRA will. So why has Corbyn allowed this to dominate and why is there no clear opposition to Brexit? I can't help wondering if that is because EU policies will make it hard for Corbyn to follow through on state ownership and other passions. In which case it may be that Corbyn is actually prepared to sacrifice the country's economic future to fulfil his ideological dreams.

All politics is for wankers.

This particular dust-up is great because it means one load of tedious, holier-than-thou politicos are slagging off another load of tedious, holier-than-thou politicos.

What it’s about couldn’t matter less. But seeing them tearing in to one another is fun. Also, it keeps them from doing more political wankery bullshit to stuff up ordinary people.

Dottierichardson. In a nutshell

Dottie, thanks - that's actually provided some clarity.

I'm sixth generation or so. I find it deeply ironic non-Jews get to tell me what's anti-Semitic or not as per their definition.

And fwiw I definitely DO get irony because it rained on my wedding day too.

Totally agree with whomever it was said this thread was started with "faux confusion" when all that was wanted was a discussion about how bad the Tories are...

Ironic then perhaps some might say... That the opening statement discusses the bad behaviour exhibited by the leader of labour.

It's like 10000 forks when all you need is a knife.

www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/opinion/labour-britain-anti-semitism-corbyn.html

This is a fairly clear explanation although I think the story has moved on a bit since this was written.

Bineverywhere, I don’t think that either you or Alanis Morissette know what ironic means, to be honest.

Rain on your wedding day and 10000 forks are just things that are a bit annoying!

If I wanted a discussion about how bad the tories are I have posted about one.

And it's not faux confusion- this discussion has helped me unpick the situation and has affirm my position on corbyn.

With relation to the Labour Party he needs to step down - I think his position is untenable and if there was a snap general election I'd be unable to vote Labour currently.

Would have posted - fat fingers!!!

If anything I was hoping to be told that things were overblown or something. But sadly I can that they're not.

What a terrible state of affairs all round.