Can someone please explain anti-semitism and the Labour Party to me?

[serialtester]

My aibu is that I just really don't understand it all.

The Labour Party should be opposing - not imploding.

What is going on?

Do I believe Jeremy Corbyn is himself an anti-Semite? No

Do I think he's demonstrated a systematic unwillingness to acknowledge or deal with the anti semitic behaviour that's sadly been growing within the party? Yes. Corbyn and the NEC have been very happy to look the other way until public pressure meant they couldn't keep ignoring it.

He can't be held accountable for bigoted nutters in his party making blatantly antisemitic comments. But his willingness to look the other way, and intransigence in dealing with these individuals, has been stark

For example (broader list at the end of the post, source link has links to all the individual examples)

A Labour council candidate in Peterborough, Alan Bull, shared anti-Semitic material online which claimed that the Holocaust was a ‘hoax’. The Labour party was made aware of the posts in 2017, but only suspended the candidate when contacted by the Jewish Chronicle in March 2018."

"Jackie Walker, formerly vice-chair of Momentum, said Jews were the ‘chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade’, criticised security for Jewish schools, and said Holocaust Memorial Day was not ‘inclusive’ enough. After the comments were made and widely condemned, Corbyn shared a platform and campaigned alongside Walker"

Labour shortlisted of a councillor who wrote

"What have the Jews done good in this world"
"The Jews have reaped the rewards of playing victims”
That there are "worse people than Hitler in this world”.

A Labour Party spokesperson said: “We do not comment on internal selection matters"

No comment at all?

The former mayor of Blackburn Salim Mulla, a Labour councillor, was suspended over anti-Semitic comments made on Twitter and Facebook. (suggesting Israel was behind the Sandy Hook massacre and ISIS, and that 'Zionist Jews' were 'a disgrace to humanity'."

He was suspended from the party - but then subsequently reinstated.

This isn't Israeli politics. This is pretty clear cut antisemitism.

Lots more examples here. There's various links for each individual example and allegation here (yes it's the spectator but it links out to multiple sources, if you believe every single one is an anti Corbyn conspiracy then not much I can do to persuade you otherwise)

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/" target="_blank">https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/

Corbyn’s stated and beautifully expressed desire to stamp out anti-Semitism has been articulated many times in letters and newspaper articles. But that's not the same as actually taking serious and meaningful action.

WRT the IHRA definition of anti semitism

How many other minorities aren't allowed to decide what is racism against them?

The Labour NEC decided what was antisemitism behind closed doors without actually consulting with the Jewish community - the community's views were not invited until after the outcry

Imagine the police, post Stephen Lawrence and the charge of institutional racism, had been given guidelines from the leaders of the black community. Then imagine the police rejected these, instead a mostly white group of police officials, without consultation, drew up its own anti-racism guidelines. Imagine these officials then said to the black community 'here are the guidelines we're following', and when that community complained that these did not address their concerns those police officials dismissed their concerns, responding 'how dare you complain, you should be grateful'.

This is in effect what Labour has done to the Jewish community.

And WRT to the IHRA restricting the ability to criticise the state of Israel, this commentary from Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian offers one POV

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/27/jewish-anger-labour-listen-antisemitism-opinion

"How on earth has it come to this? How have we sunk to the point where the mainstream Jewish community sees Labour this way, and when a longtime anti-racist like Billy Bragg finds himself telling an ethnic minority that they have “work to do” if they are to win back Labour’s trust? Can it really be solely about Labour’s failure to adopt the full text of the near universally accepted International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s (IHRA) definition of antisemitism, including all its illustrative examples, so that this is an argument about sub-clauses and paragraphs? Is that all this is about?

No. The definition row is the eruption, but the volcano itself goes much deeper. Churning inside are deep incomprehension and distrust, brewed over many years, if not decades.

Defenders of Labour’s code of conduct say it was necessary because the IHRA version conflates legitimate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. This makes plenty of Jews want to slam their heads on their desks in frustration, partly because the IHRA text explicitly says that if you criticise Israel the way you criticise other countries, it “cannot be regarded as antisemitic”, and partly because these Jews criticise Israel all the time themselves – never more so than in the week after Israel passed an appalling nation-state law which, in effect, officially confirms Arab-Israelis as second-class citizens.

Bragg worries that the IHRA will silence the pro-Palestinian voice. But the only pro-Palestinian who needs to fear the IHRA is the one who wants to say Jews are disloyal to their own countries, that Jews are Nazis and that the very idea of Jews having a homeland of their own is “a racist endeavour”. You can say all of those things more easily under Labour’s new code – the age-old accusation of disloyalty, for example, is no longer classified as antisemitic – which is one reason why the vast bulk of the Jewish community opposes it.

But the IHRA itself, properly applied, allows plenty of scope. You can, if you want, say everything the state of Israel has done since its birth has been racist. All it prohibits is branding as a racist endeavour “a state of Israel” – the principle that Jews, like every other people on Earth, should have a home and refuge of their own. And if you want to make a serious analogy with the historic past, you can do that too, because the IHRA allows for context. Given all that, when Jews hear that the IHRA is not good enough, so that Labour had to draw up a code of its own, they wonder: what exactly is it that Labour wants to say about us?"

Corbyn states over and over they he opposes racism in all its forms and that anti semitism has no place in the Labour party (I am a Labour voter and Labour party member, as well as a non-Zionist British Jew, for the sake of clarity before I get accused of being a Tory)

When Corbyn met with key representatives of the Jewish community to discuss anti semitism within the Labour party, after he had said antisemitism was a stain within the Labour party and must be challenged, he then proceeded to do, well, not very much.

Following the meeting, this was the POV of the representatives of the Jewish community (only one side of the discussion, however I'd be grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of a Labour spokesman commenting on what was discussed and what action the party proposed taking)

"We asked that Labour put in a fixed timetable to deal with anti-Semitism cases; Corbyn and his team said that would not be possible.

We asked that they should expedite the long-standing cases involving serial offenders Ken Livingstone and Jackie Walker; Corbyn made only vague commitments.

We asked that no MP should share a platform with somebody expelled or suspended for anti-Semitism; Corbyn said he could not give us that guarantee.

We asked that there be transparent oversight of Labour’s disciplinary process. Corbyn was not forthcoming.

Wow, bananafish - what incredibly insightful and informative posts. Thanks.

See also thousands of abusive messages sent to Ruth Smeeth and Luciana Berger, both Jewish female MPs, from Momentum supporters - including death threats and being called 'yid cunts', amongst other choice epithets

Or posts like these from a Labour councillor and candidate, respectively.

The anti semitism row isn't just about Israeli politics. It really isn't. This stuff is blatant anti semitism.

This piece from Simon Hattenstone piece is also worth a read OP. He's not a Corbyn criitic and if this yet another 'smear by the MSM' then not sure if anything in anything other than the Canary would be considered unbiased

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/24/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-zionists-2013-speech" target="_blank">I gave Corbyn the benefit of the doubt on antisemitism. I can’t any more

So many people questioning him

but will his supporters still support him

I hope some shall really think hard about doing so they really need to

big business and banks etc, which are mostly run by successful Jewish folk.

Lovely antisemitic canard there!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economicantisemitismm_

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Internationall_Jewishconspiracy#Jewssandbusiness

I joined the Labour Party specifically to vote for JC at the last leadership challenge and I was very much a JC supporter. I can’t understand the logic that makes people think these accusations are media smears though. He is being condemned by his own actions. It would be incredibly easy for him to unequivocally condemn antisemitism and expell those Labour Party members and MPs who use hate speech from the party. Instead of doing this he makes a speech about how British Jews don’t get irony and are ‘other’ to the rest of the British population. Can you imagine the furore if he’d said that about any other religion or ethnic group? I am throughly disillusioned that this so called man of principle is continuing to throughly let down the Labour Party.

Simon Hattenstone if link broken: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/24/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-zionists-2013-speech

(I'll shut up now, but I've posted on quite a few threads where people have said 'but what are some actual examples', and then after posting some actual examples, quite a few posters have said that oh actually they hadn't realised the context and connections and they'd not actually seen the kinds of incidents that are at the heart of the issue before. So thought worth posting on this thread as well)

I think it has echoes of the misogyny in the party. Much better to attack as bigots and transphobes women who dare to question that transwomen are women, than to tackle the misogyny and threats from dudes in the party. He may not think he's an antisemite. He may not think he's a sexist. But this happens on his watch. He is.

Jewish people and women women have been massive supporters of Labour. And yet both are accused of getting it wrong - that they have not experienced what they are experiencing

extra "women" in that last post

Absolutely Ladybirds

totally agree

Saying ‘zionists’ when you really mean ‘jews’ is the issue here. Israel (the govt and it’s actions) isn’t perfect, many Jews criticise it, but Israel as a state is important to the Jewish people so most Jewish people are zionists at heart and most Jewish people have been to Israel and hold it dear. So, when Corbyn says Zionists don’t understand irony, or labour won’t use the ‘official’ description of anti-semitism you start to see the issue. Plus, Corbyn going to a Passover meal of a very left-wing, marginal Jewish group was a good indicator of where he stood (on the extreme left self-hating, Israel-hating Jew front).

Sorry, one more

Labour’s new code of conduct states that the use of the word Zionism “euphemistically or as part of any personal abuse” may “provide evidence of antisemitic intent”.

On both fronts, if Corbyn said the same thing today he would be in breach of his own party’s guidance.

Ps: I’ve always voted labour but won’t while Corbyn is at the helm.

I've never been quite sure about the "we don't know if JC is an antisemite, but he doesn't do enough about it in the party" thing

We all make mistakes, but when the antisemitic incidents keep happening with nothing effective being done - and when JC himself chooses to engage in provocation while ignoring others involved - doesn't that suggest a certain sympathy with the antisemites, if not actual support?

With any other minority it would be insisted that such choices made him as bad as the bigots ... why is this any different?

serialtester if you are still confused I can't blame you but in bald terms antiSemitism = hatred of Jews; antiZionism = hatred of the Israeli state and those who believe in its existence.

The problem comes because Israel is a Jewish State so criticism of it equates to hatred of Jews. What tends to be forgotten is that not all Jews, either in Israel and the wider world (eg Britain), support the Israeli Government even though they support the right of Israel to exist.

Unfortunately too many antiSemites now find it useful to hide their racism behind anti Zionism. Hence general public confusion currently doing the rounds. Corbyn is an anti Zionist and it's pretty obvious by his lack of action against antiSemitism within all ranks of the Labour Party that he doesn't like Jews, period. That makes him an antiSemite in my book.