To think the working parent should also contribute to housework

[Bowejangles]

Just that really.

Young family of three, father works full time and mum looks after baby full time.

Father does zero housework whatsoever because he works, mum doesn't therefore thinks she can surely do it herself.

If she doesn't then it doesn't get done

What do you think?

Under school age - going to work far easier than staying at home. When both home all housework should be shared and equal time off.
School age - during term time majority of tasks by SAHP as long as DC have no additional needs.

I couldn't respect a person who walks in and flops down and refuses to help out while their partner flies around doing everything when they've also clearly had a hard day. Entitled attitude.

As someone on FWR wisely said it's about having equal leisure time.

The thing about being an SAHM is that your work never stops. The house isn't just a home to you but a workplace, whereas for the one working you have a set workdaye which finishes at a certain time.

But when you have kids you need to expect to give up some of that because childcare + all the housework > full time work.

So yes, he needs to do some but not all. Enough so they have equal amounts of time off.

It's notable that when women work full-time they end up doing more.

A lot depends on the job though
As I said before the sahp I know (I was one as well) all had partners with very demanding jobs - my dh works a twelve hour day at work plus a few hours every evening and most of Sunday - most partners were similar and frequently working away ...I don't know many 'breadwinners' that work a 37 hour week and are home at 5 twiddling their thumbs - that's the out of date view- most professionals are working ridiculous hours so have very little time at home. My dh literally has half an hour down time on a good work day- there's no way as a sahp I could argue I had less than this so it wouldn't have been fair to split all the housework

Thirtyrock - but fathers (let's be honest it's usually fathers) worked long if not longer hours in the past too! And more often than now in manual very demanding jobs, like coal mining.

Sorry - meant to say - and they did more at home then! Today's men seem very lazy to me.

The working parent should definitely contribute to housework when not at work. Two reasons for this:

1. Being a stay at home parent IS work. That's why nurseries and childminders get paid.

2. (and this really is the key one for me as a man) as the working parent is mostly the Dad, if he does no housework it normalises the idea that men don't do it. The Dad can show that men can and should cook and clean and so on. Equally I'd expect the Mum to have a go at fixing things etc.

Even in this thread, some PPs have referred to 'mens jobs' and 'womens jobs'. There are no such thing. There are only jobs.

JeanGenie - I personally only referred to them as men's and women's jobs as my parents and grandparents perceived them.

Doesn't mean I agree with that at all, they're absolutely not. Equally my parents both taught me and my siblings (2 girls one boy) so that we're all able to cook, clean, do basic DIY, car maintenance, gardening & lawn maintenance.

Good stuff Graphista. I'm always amazed at otherwise capable female friends who aren't just not good at DIY, but won't even attempt it. There is still I think some stereotyping around certain jobs being manly, hence my earlier comment.

That said, I don't touch the car. That's my wife's job. It terrifies me 😁

My exh was weirdly absolutely rubbish at DIY, or car stuff. Weird because both his dad (practical type very good at this stuff) and I tried to teach him and he genuinely tried to learn, the car stuff in particular he found embarrassing.

I've built furniture, will do basic electrics (but leave trickier stuff to professionals), have fitted carpets throughout a full 2 bed house, created my own unusual curtain railings and picture frames, repaired certain appliances (sometimes need to YouTube for quick tips) but I'll have a go.

And I'm considered the non-practical one in the family! (have a brother who's motorbike mad inc having basically built his own using "scrap", he's also done things like made his own windsurfing board. Sister is very good at electrics despite no formal training, including designing and then making her own lighting displays, electric race tracks for her DC)

He is a lazy selfish man if he will not do house work. I see pps saying you can't change some men, I believe you can. Start by leaving him with the house the DC forva few days, no prep, just go. If he doesn't see he needs to change and help after that he is not worth having.

DP works long hours and I was parttime he always done his share. I am sahm at the mo with 2DC. There are days I wont get much done, he will always get stuck in after work, he is great at sorting into living order then I can do all the bits he doesn't see.

It is horrible, he thinks he can be so entitled, Where do some men get their ego

Honestly? I know I will get a lot of grief here, but the SAHP should do all the housework. Unless you live in a huge mansion, it really doesn't take that long. I used to do about 1 1/2 hours a day plus laundry and cooking when I was on mat leave and the house was sparkling. Babies and young toddlers sleep, older ones can help out with enough instruction. All of mine did (and do)

Well as that is your experience it MUST be the experience of everyone else. Everyone else’s kids must be exactly the same as yours and your housework standards must also be identical.

I'm at SAHM. DH works full time however I'm raising 2 boys. I want them to see that everyone should pull their weight. Just picking up after yourself, is a great start. I come from a family where the boys did nothing and the girls were expected to cook and clean. My mother is horrified when I expect DH to clean up. We're a partnership. Raising children is not a walk in the park. As someone who had a high flying career before my kids, I can honestly say, there are days I much prefer going out to work. My youngest sleeps about 6hrs a day, made up of short 10 min naps. I'm damned if I'm going to rush round tidying in that 10 mins. I need to pee/rest/eat/drink too.

@Thirtyrock39
When the WOHP is working lots of hours this is often mirrored by the SAHP "working" the same hours as there will be noone else around to share the childcare and housework. If you have children that are at school, nap well or are just of the temperament that will allow you to get domestic chores done then this won't necessarily create a problem, however speaking from personal experience some babies, toddlers and even children will demand pretty much constant attention or monitoring so having more hours of SAHPing in the day doesn't necessarily create more opportunity to do housework.

Again, I honestly don't understand why there seems to be a disbelief that some SAHPs won't be able to keep their children safe, entertained and fed etc AND do all household chores too. Why is the assumption that they are lazy/lying/inefficient rather than just believing that the combined workload is too much in the hours available?

Yes I think all the adults should contribute to the housework. We both work FT now but when DH was part time I still done the my share. Obviously he done more. Just tidy up after yourself is great help. We do little and often to keep on top of things.

My husband and I share it. I probably do slightly more but the way we see it is his job is outside the home, my job is looking after the baby. I try to do bits around the house in the day. Some days it’s possoble, some days it’s not.

When our DCs were little, we shared stuff.
I am a teacher so get more holidays. During term time, it was a fairly equal split in that DH took over the children when at home, bathed them story time, bed etc. I would do all housework except hoovering stairs and bedrooms, plus DH did ironing.
Now we are child free, I think I do the most, but he still does ironing, sorts the washing out, does all the hoovering, walks dog most days morning and night, and sees to the fire (we have a woodburner, and I'm not allowed to touch it 😂😂😂)
I can't remember a time when he's ever cleaned the bathroom or the windows. Or the oven or fridge!
However, it absolutely works for us. There's hardly ever a time when I'm doing jobs and he's sat on his backside doing sod all, and vice versa. It took us a long token to get to this point, and when we had babies it was tough sometimes, because babies can be exhausting!
My advice is, find the spare cash to get a cleaner in once a fortnight to give the bathroom and kitchen a good going over, plus a thorough hoovering and dusting everywhere. Have big wicker baskets in the living room to put toys in. If it doesn't fit in, it stays in the bedroom. Get a huge kitchen bin with a round lid so it needs emptying less often and you can't put rubbish in it when full.
Stop waking him up, if he's late, that's his own fault!
Make a list of all the chores, allocate tasks to him e.g. Load and empty dishwasher ( or wash and put away pots). If he hasn't done it, don't make his tea until it has been done. Don't wash anything that isn't in the washing basket. Don't do his ironing. Everything of his that he leaves out, put in a bag rather than in it's correct place.

Looking after many/most babies and toddlers is a full-time job (or even moreso in the early days and weeks) so in this case the chores should be fairly divided. The Father should also do as much as possible after the birth to allow the Mother to rest and heal.

When children are at school, assuming there are no special needs or disabilities, I don't see any reason for a SAHP, at least not long term. Adults are responsible for themselves and I can't understand why anyone would want to be dependent on someone else if they didn't need to be, it leaves that person very financially vulnerable, in general.

I forgot that every comment on MN should come with a disclaimer that every child is different, the post generally refers to NT and healthy people, who make up the majority of the population...

But I'll bite. I have two children, one toddler and one primary-aged. One was a decent sleeper, one a nightmare when it came to sleep (waking up to every 30-60min a night). One is NT and one has mild autism. I have had severe PND both times after my pregnancies, which lasted for about a year each time. One has allergies, which contributed to constant feeding and a reluctance to be put down for the first 8 months of her life. I have done the SAHP thing as well as the working f/t for up to 14 hours a day.

So, with that in mind: being a SAHP was by far the easier job. I got up with my DH each morning, regardless of how the night went and made him and DC1 food for the day. I had a shower each morning, children awake or not. If they were awake, the baby (now toddler) just came into the bathroom with me and - shock, horror - had to wait until I was done. I then got the children ready and did the school run. Then it was baby/ toddler time. Nothing needs to wait until they are asleep; washing, cooking etc. got done when they were awake. If necessary, I wore baby. I did almost all household errands with them awake. I haven't ironed in years; I just hang my clothes properly.

I insisted on routines, sleep training the awful sleeper - gently, with little to no crying, but enough that by 8 months she was in her cot and by 12 months she started to sleep through.

I insisted on teaching both children routines and responsibilities.

Both children have always been expected to help in the household, from the age they could walk. Little, age-appropriate things like putting their toys back before bed or if there was too much mess, helping to wipe their tables etc. Jobs, which made my life easier in the long run.

I got plenty of breaks during the day - children don't need constant entertainment and they learn just fine on their own as well as being included in everyday tasks. Both - even the autistic child - are far ahead in their development, so something must have gone right.

Smug? Too right, I am. Far too many people on here who sacrifice their all in order to constantly entertain their kids, do something special with them etc. and forget that the over-involvement of parents in their children's lives is a recent development and that children are fine and learn just fine if left to their own (supervised) devices for some time. Far too many people on here who think children cannot help, or who do everthing themselves rather than taking the long view with children and then wonder why their lives are so hard and resent it all. That's why the 4 hours 'entertainment' are alien to me.

Seriously, do you actually 'play' with your kids for 4 hours? And then wonder why things don't get done? No child needs their parent's constant involvement for that long. Young children find food shopping, going to the doctor's, posting letters, hoovering etc. just as entertaining. Learning is just that and doesn't happen separately from life.

So yes, with that in mind, being a SAHP is the easy part and the little bit of housework really doesn't take all day.

Whilst I was on mat leave I was effectively working from 6am - 9pm (a 15 hour day every day) plus I was on call 9pm to 6am every day. So I was effective working a 100 hour week plus dealing with night wake ups with no lunch or tea breaks. Whereas DH was suddenly exhausted from doing 40 hours /(even if her did a 5x12 hour days that would only be 60 hours per week) and was expected me to do verything in the house nd would even empty the bin (I think he has mowed our small lawn twice this year). DD would not go to bed until 9pm (I’ve managed to bring that back to 8pm) and would fight naps all day. I would be lucky to get 2x20 minute naps! I ended up going on a 1 to 2 hour drive most days to get an hysterical baby to sleep. I would regularly go through the Starbucks drive through as that would be the only way I would ever get a hot drink or lunch!

I went back to work full time in a demanding role to get a rest. It was bliss being able to drink a hot cup of tea, and have lunch without eating at lightspeed!

Mat leave should not be used as an excuse for men to slack off and do nothing in the house at a time when the mother’s workload goes up 10 times!

Good stuff Graphista. I'm always amazed at otherwise capable female friends who aren't just not good at DIY, but won't even attempt it. There is still I think some stereotyping around certain jobs being manly, hence my earlier comment.

I do all the DIY, and the car.. but.... not when the kids were little - if DS2 spied any kind of tool he wanted to 'help'

I think that at a bare minimum, the WOH partner needs to not make more work - they should be picking up after themselves, taking their plate to the kitchen, putting their socks in the wash, wiping down the sides after making a sandwich rather than leaving crumbs everywhere etc.

Normal should then be doing the cooking a few times a week, putting the washing on, brushing the kids teeth/getting them breakfast fairly often etc. Pitching in with the running of the house, rather than just sitting back and expecting everything to be done for them like it's a hotel.

@Wormzy
I don't really understand what you are trying to prove and why you are so adamant you are right?

So you used gentle sleep training that only really properly worked at the age of one, got toddlers to "help" with the tidying and had a shower whilst your baby waited... None of these things are particularly revolutionary nor would they save you loads of time to do all the housework.

Your points about entertaining your children are just odd. Some children are by nature happy to play alone and can entertain themselves, some need help to do this and in my experience some kids really really struggle with this. We all know adults that are extremely extroverted and like to spend all their time with other people and some children are just the same. Of course everyone has to ultimately learn an element of playing independently and not having constant adult based entertainment but this can be a long, drawn out, time consuming process that annoyingly isn't always as simple as telling the child to play alone or ignoring requests to play.

Also some children don't actually find running errands and hoovering particularly entertaining. I have two children and one loves these things and one absolutely hates them with a passion. People are different, children are different and just because your methods worked with your two children you have absolutely no right to be so smug and judgemental of others. Believe it or not you may not be a superior mother or partner and attempting to shame women that are genuinely struggling is pretty awful!

Have I said anything was revolutionary? I have merely pointed out that many MNetters make a rod for their own backs - funnily enough not mirrored by many people I know in real life.

I have also pointed out that being a SAHP is an easy option, compared to (my) working life and that if you have the chance to be at home, you should do all the housework - and explained why it really isn't that big a deal. Some make it out like they are slaving away 16+ hours a day without a break at home.

Well, unless you have 10+ toddlers to look after at the same time, that's just bizarre. But then you start all these things early on. Maybe it's a cultural thing.

Not sure its cultural so much as the golden rule that should run through everyone's life - do what works for you and your family and don't waste time worrying about what everyone else is doing. I was the SAHP til DS was 18mo old and I didn't find the housework etc hard, I struggled with not having time to myself in the same way I had previously (being the first one up on a Saturday and having a quiet morning reading and drinking tea). It's different for everyone so the idea of saying 'I don't know why other people don't...' seems a bit redundant to me.

As for whether people can change, DH, when we first moved in together, was crap at thinking about or remembering to do housework - today he's the SAHP and although I do laundry, hoover, cook, tidy etc when I'm home he does the majority of it, so of course people (male and female) can learn to change their attitudes and their habits - it's just that a lot don't want to

@Wormzy
And yet lots of posters have said they have stressful careers and still find being at home more challenging. I had a stressful career myself with a good salary and find being a SAHP much more difficult. I do sometimes have to put in 16 plus hours of relentless work in a day and I don't have lots of toddler. I am not inefficient or lazy so I guess it comes down the the whole "rod for your own back" argument. To a certain extent I accept this as I think parents have different standards and what is ok for one parent would be absolutely unacceptable to another. A good example would be parents that use cry it out methods on young babies, some see it as necessary as they are so crippled by sleep deprivation whilst others wouldn't do it under any circumstances. Maybe parents the former group would be better positioned to do housework in the day but I'm not sure parents in the latter group would see it as a price worth paying. I do think however that describing things that are essentially a judgement call around parenting standards as creating a "rod for your own back" is incredibly inflammatory and undermining.

Again, I am not denying your experience and that you found it possible to do the housework as a SAHP and that you find your job harder than your time at home, so why are you so keen to deny mine and other SAHPs like me? Why must your experience be definitive?