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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Well off friend in council house

293 replies

toughtimes2001 · 23/08/2018 19:31

Please tell me if I am being unfair.

My friend and her partner (mid 20's) earn a combined salary of of £65K (no kids) and have a cheap council tenancy home with a massive garden in a lovely part of London (her partner sneakily inherited the tenancy from his deceased father a couple of years back). The have a lovely life with plenty of disposable income as their rent is very cheap and go on lovely holidays and are saving up a massive deposit for their own home which they intend to buy in a couple of years. I should also add, she has very wealthy parents who dish out money to them left right and centre for various things throughout the year.

Meanwhile, I a single mum earn £19K (no family support) privately rent a rubbish 1 bedroom flat (which is more in rent than they pay) in a rubbish part of town with no hope of ever buying a home or taking my DS on a luxury holiday. I have also been told I am not a priority for housing so no hope for me any time soon!

Am I right to think this is just completely unfair?

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 27/08/2018 20:01

HelenaDove Mon 27-Aug-18 18:37:41

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/24/high-rise-tenants-being-ignored-like-we-were-say-grenfell-survivors-salford
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HelenaDove Mon 27-Aug-18 19:16:00

"Survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire have widened their campaign against the marginalisation of council tenants, raising concerns that others are being treated in the same way as they were before the disaster.

Nicholas Burton, whose wife, Pily, died as a result of the fire on 14 June 2017, and Edward Daffarn, who escaped from the 16th floor, are helping residents at nine council-owned tower blocks in Salford, Greater Manchester, that were refurbished using similar combustible cladding at the same time as Grenfell.
Britain flouting human rights over Grenfell-style cladding
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They have heard claims from tenants that their concerns about safety were not being handled properly. After he visited the Pendleton estate and spoke to residents, Burton said: “It’s just like turning back the clock.”

Pendleton Together, the social landlord that looks after the blocks for Salford city council, has so far removed the lower three storeys of cladding on most of the blocks.

Residents understand that the project to replace the cladding and install sprinklers could take up to two years. They have warned they are losing sleep and are scared about the possibility of fire. Last month, Pendleton Together told inhabitants of Spruce Court, a 22-storey tower, that they must keep their windows closed until further notice because of problems
What we went through with the tenants management organisation and the council, they are going through similar difficulties,” said Burton. “They are not being listened to. After the tragedy of Grenfell, you would think people in authority would take a little bit more care in listening to their residents.”

Pendleton Together said it completely rejected any comparison to the situation at Grenfell Tower. A spokesman for the landlord said: “Pendleton Together remains open to discussing any concerns with residents and encourage reporting of them, via a dedicated email address set up for this purpose or through our normal customer reporting systems.”
Flat owners have to pay £3m recladding cost of two Manchester blocks
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It said concerns had been raised only by a minority of tenants and that some of them were unfounded.

But anxiety among residents is running high. Leaseholders in two privately owned blocks in Manchester lost a property tribunal case which means they, rather than the freeholder Pemberstone, will have to pay the estimated £3m cost of replacing flammable cladding – about £10,000 per flat. The residents of Vallea Court and Cypress Place in the city’s Green Quarter have voiced fears that a fire at the base of their building could start a major blaze.

The blocks are among 474 residential buildings more than 18 metres tall across England and Wales thought to be wrapped in combustible cladding. Only 17 are known to have been completely fixed and there is continued uncertainty about when the rest will be made safe.

In the wake of the Grenfell fire, Theresa May voiced concern about tenants’ views being ignored. In a speech in March, the prime minister said “concerns not being acted on, voices not being listened to, needs being ignored” are “all too familiar to tenants in all kinds of homes across the country”.
Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
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Elizabeth Okpo, a resident of Spruce Court, said the fact that combustible cladding was still in place was not the only problem. Fire alarms installed in flats which are supposed to alert the building’s security team did not always function properly and fire sounders on the landings were not loud enough for people in their flats to hear, so residents have slept through them.
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“There are children in the block on the 11th and 18th floors and we have people who are disabled on the 21st floor,” Okpo said. “These type of people are going to struggle to get down.

Residents had started to draw up a list of vulnerable neighbours so they could try to help people evacuate in the event of a fire, she said.

Pendleton Together said the alarms were set to the volume limit allowed under law in communal areas and there were 24-hour patrols by fire marshals with klaxons.

Okpo also claimed Pendleton Together had made it harder for residents to form an association by failing to provide access to the community room in their tower for meetings. The landlord said it offered Okpo an alternative room 650 metres from the tower.

“How we were treated and dismissed seems to be the same [as Grenfell],” Okpo said.

At Daffarn’s suggestion, Okpo has started a blog, Spruce Court Action. Daffarn was co-author of the Grenfell Action Blog that chronicled concerns about Kensington and Chelsea council, the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation and the 2014-16 refurbishment of Grenfell Tower.

Eight months before the fire, Daffarn and Francis O’Connor wrote that “only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord.

Burton was a member of the leaseholders association at Grenfell that raised multiple concerns about the the 2014-2016 refurbishment.

Other residents of the Salford towers have started a blog – Thorn and Pendleton Blog News – tracking their concerns.

“My heart is overwhelmed by the thought that Grenfell two is in the post,” said Burton. “There are hundreds of towers all over the country and people are not sleeping properly.”

• This article was amended on 24 August 2018 because an earlier version referred to Lendlease as the freeholder of Vallea Court and Cypress Place in Manchester’s Green Quarter. Lendlease sold the freehold to Pemberstone in 2015, and the tribunal was between Pemberstone and the leaseholders."
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HelenaDove Mon 27-Aug-18 19:18:12

I posted some links to articles about what was going on with the tenants in Salford during their refurb in the early Grenfell threads while the fire was still going.

nellyolsenscurl · 27/08/2018 20:58

Helena I absolutely do not envy them, no. I will never be able to get on the property ladder and as a long term renter in a climate where rent is becoming extortionate it does worry me but I need to take responsibility for my own life and choices. My point was/is that the families that I see seem to take no responsibility for their actions/choices and have a massive sense of entitlement. One family was going to their MP because they had 6 dc in a tiny 2 bed flat. They got the flat when they had 2 small dc and obviously went on to have 4 more. They were saying the cramped conditions and lack of outside space was affecting the dc's mental health and behaviour. To me it just felt that this coup!d's sense of responsibility and duty of care towards their dc was non existent. It was all the L A's fault.

I saw something recently about children brought up in SH have a 40% less chance of going on to further or higher education and from what I have seen I can see why. Lack of aspiration plus a sense of entitlement is a disaster and it is a case of behaviour repeating behaviour. I am generalizing here but in my town SH is not mixed and the vast majority of tenants are unemployed and the estates are notorious for drugs and ASB. This is why a n income cap will never work, it would always be a race to the bottom.

LuluJakey1 · 27/08/2018 21:08

I have my parents council house rent books from when they moved in, in 1969 until my mum died in 2014. Never a week's rent late or missed. Never ever had any benefits, always paid full rent. I wonder what it tots up to and if they could have paid off a mortgage.

HelenaDove · 27/08/2018 21:17

Thing is Lulu they were probably less likely to claim them as there were more workers rights back then................no zero hours contracts no workfare etc.

LuluJakey1 · 27/08/2018 22:02

Helena They were not entitled to them. My dad had a good job as a manager and my mum worked. They came from utter poverty and were terrified of debt. They worked hard, my dad never had a day off sick until he was 55. They paid for everything upfront in cash or didn't buy it. They always saved so they were never without money if something went wrong. Never borrowed money, never had credit cards and the thought of a mortgage scared them. They could have afforded a mortgage but were scared. And they weren't interested in buying their council house when Right to Buy came along because they thought they were 'jerry built' as my dad put it. He was right.

LuluJakey1 · 27/08/2018 22:46

They had this idea that owning a nice house 'wasn't for the likes of them' to use an old fashioned expression; that they were somehow not good enough. Their lack of social confidence outside of their family and small group of friends was staggering. It manifested itself in not wanting to take any risks or to be different or aspirational.
I see it over and over again as a teacher; children from very poor backgrounds for generations, who have no desire to change their lives or belief that they can. They feel inferior and rarely leave the estate they live on - one of the most deprived in the country. DH and I live 4 miles away and it is another world. The school our two children will go to is one of the highest performing in the country with one of the lowest levels of deprivation. PP levels of 7% compared with the school I am describing with has a PP level of 80%. Poverty is the bigges5 factor 8n what happens to a child. 4 miles separate abject, ingrained poverty and awful housing on an estate where drugs, violence, volatility in the community, poverty, unemployment, poor health, poor literacy levels, crime and social disorder are extremely high and a leafy suburb of expensive very middle-class housing, very low unemployment, high levels of higher education, professionals, good health stats, low crime levels, a looked after, affluent area and safe community. The lives and prospects of the children who live those 4 miles apart are chalk and cheese.
That's why we should have a welfare state; so that we can chnage the future for those children. If only it was as simple as good housing, money at home etc. It is the culture that goes with it in many of those houses.

Blondeshavemorefun · 27/08/2018 23:13

Until two years ago it was perfectly possible to buy a terraced house in Kent for £120,000 or a flat. There are direct trains into Central London

Not in my part of kent. Looking at least £200k if. Or more £300k

And op - your friend is saving to buy a house. Which means theirs will be given to someone. Prob with children

And assume they are paying extra bedroom tax on current property

FlotSHAMnJetson · 27/08/2018 23:20

A family member of mine was given hundreds of thousands of pounds for doing nothing.

It was inheritance when their mother died.

Is it unfair? Am I jealous?

No, we are all given our lot and if everyone was given exactly the same life would be boring. Aim your discontent at your own situation and work on a plan to get your own home, you can do it.

HalfGreekBitch · 27/08/2018 23:22

I do agree with previous replies. Your energies would be better spent improving your situation.

FlotSHAMnJetson · 27/08/2018 23:22

Until two years ago it was perfectly possible to buy a terraced house in Kent for £120,000 or a flat. There are direct trains into Central London

My parents left Kent in the 1970's because of the high property prices.

HelenaDove · 27/08/2018 23:45

my parents are similar in the case that they dont believe in credit cards and debt.

But they did have a mortgage and own their own house.

Thing is now if you dont have a credit rating you are screwed in some ways.

My parents attitude did rub off on me and ive never been in debt or taken out a loan.

I have a theory about whats really behind this "social housing is just for the needy" schtick Turn estates into ghettos then when regeneration comes a calling and HAs want to knock places down and rebuild no public or media sympathy will ensue for those that live there. Quite clever really.

Bluelady · 28/08/2018 06:48

The couple in question will be paying the rent and nothing more. The so called "bedroom tax" is a deduction from benefits for people in allegedly under occupied properties. How can people be so ignorant?

Tumbleweed101 · 28/08/2018 07:07

Social housing rents are lower because they don’t make a profit from the rent, they put the money into maintaince and building new houses etc. They are set at a level that is affordable for lower wages.

Private renting is expensive because the landlord wants to make a profit as well as maintaince and paying off the mortgage and insurances. They only care about themselves not a wider public duty ie keeping rent lower for low waged people.

People want social housing because it gives security and a real home rather than having to find deposits and moving money every few months. Not being allowed to decorate and make it a home etc.

The people most subsidised by our system are the private landlords who receive public money in the form of housing benefit from the low waged tenants who can’t afford the high market rent which can be more than their monthly wages.

LuluJakey1 · 28/08/2018 08:13

Tumbleweed It is amazing to me that people do not seem to understand the difference between social and private housing and council housing. You really should not have to explain it.

HelenaDove · 29/08/2018 15:46

We shoudnt have to explain it no but as you dont seem to understand it either Lulu here we go...................

When the children of parents who live in social housing go out to work their money is taken into consideration and they have to pay towards the rent , council tax etc In one case near me there is a mother and son who live in a flat. The mother is in poor health Her young son who is around 20 works full time and pays all the rent and everything else. He is unable to save for a deposit for a place of his own so he will likely need social housing later on. Im sure he would like the desire and belief you speak of Lulu but he cant afford it. His wages are taken into consideration so saving for a deposit is a pipe dream And many know this.

can you imagine the uproar though if children of parents who are ill were allowed to keep the wages they earn to save for a deposit?

And yet after paying for the flat for God knows how long the young lad i mentioned will probably get the boot from the HA when/if his mother dies.

Because its just social housing tenants innit. So you see maybe some feel trapped because they are.

LuluJakey1 · 29/08/2018 21:32

Helena Don't patronise me please. I understand it very clearly. Perhaps you are mixing me up with someone else. Have a look back and then write one of your patronising responses to them.

elkiedee · 11/09/2018 14:36

Blondeshavemorefun - "bedroom tax" refers to rent not paid by housing benefit because it's for a bedroom which is not needed, or not considered by those who assess benefits to be needed. Working tenants earning more than the limit for getting housing benefit will simply pay the council-set rent for their home.

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