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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Well off friend in council house

293 replies

toughtimes2001 · 23/08/2018 19:31

Please tell me if I am being unfair.

My friend and her partner (mid 20's) earn a combined salary of of £65K (no kids) and have a cheap council tenancy home with a massive garden in a lovely part of London (her partner sneakily inherited the tenancy from his deceased father a couple of years back). The have a lovely life with plenty of disposable income as their rent is very cheap and go on lovely holidays and are saving up a massive deposit for their own home which they intend to buy in a couple of years. I should also add, she has very wealthy parents who dish out money to them left right and centre for various things throughout the year.

Meanwhile, I a single mum earn £19K (no family support) privately rent a rubbish 1 bedroom flat (which is more in rent than they pay) in a rubbish part of town with no hope of ever buying a home or taking my DS on a luxury holiday. I have also been told I am not a priority for housing so no hope for me any time soon!

Am I right to think this is just completely unfair?

OP posts:
user1490465531 · 26/08/2018 09:19

I agree OP not everyone has high earning potential but if you do and are on a good wage you should not get a council house.
It is taking away much needed stock for someone that really does need a home as opposed to someone that could buy their own home but just likes to have a lot of disposable income instead.

user1490465531 · 26/08/2018 09:22

And to all the posters ranting improve your circumstances yeah because it's that easy.
OP is a lone parent already working maybe she is doing all she can at the moment not everyone can Hope to earn 40k a year or go back to study when they have a child to feed.

LuluJakey1 · 26/08/2018 11:46

But you can only inherit the tenancy if you also live in the house, not if you live elsewhere when your parents die. Seems very reasonable to me.
There was a housing documentary on tv last year and a man who lived with his gran all his life was in his 30s when she died. He had no job. He inherited the tenancy but was them told he had to pay a bedroom tax because there was now a spare bedroom. Surely if you pay the rent on a house you already pay for the house. You would pay less rent for a smaller house. So what is bedroom tax about?
(I am being disingenuous, I know it is about theiving bastard Tory governments who do not want to invest in welfare or housing and punish the poir to create this society we have, where since 2010 the rich have got much richer and the poor much poorer).

Lisabel · 26/08/2018 12:04

Totally unfair BUT probably not worth spending time thinking about as there are always people who are very wealthy and those same people are more likely to cheat the system (e.g. tax evade, find loopholes in things).

Lisabel · 26/08/2018 12:05

** oops meant 'Tax avoid', tax evasion is illegal.

HelenaDove · 26/08/2018 16:33

"Are you seriously suggesting that child X should then be evicted"

so he/she will then be classed as in need of social housing..................oh wait i suspect the haters will tell themselves he/she is homeless cos he/she is on drugs if they then saw him/her on the street.

mrcharlie · 26/08/2018 17:42

Well, I've not read much of the replies to the OP's question, but having witnessed a friend completely take the piss I'm at view that council tenants should have subsidised housing...to a point...say £36K combined. afterwhich it goes up progressively for each additional £1k pa income, until it levels off at todays rentable value in whichever area they live in.

Some will say that's not fair, But how about the poor sod that lives in the now privately owned but rented out semi nextdoor to the still council owned property. It fucking stinks, I utterly detest with a passion the abhorrent buy-to-let culture now sweeping this country.
Why should people earning more than the average income get subsidised council housing??

HelenaDove · 26/08/2018 17:58

it is not subsidized How many more fucking times.

Oh and would you swop with any of these tenants.

www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/16596905.toryglen-residents-fury-over-botched-home-repairs/
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Sun 26-Aug-18 17:05:02

"ON every visit to Kerrycroy Avenue and surrounding streets, more and more residents wanted to speak out about problems with their homes.
One couple had to have their house roughcasted four times before it was of accepted standard
And, in one instance, repairs had to be made when the flue from their boiler was sealed in by workmen, causing a potential hazard.

One block of flats had scaffolding erected that blocked their patio doors – used as main entrances to the homes.

READ MORE: 'Our two-year hell' - Glasgow housing group's catalogue of serious failures exposed

For most, they could go out their back doors... but one woman in a wheelchair was left trapped in her home.

In another block of flats, blue plastic was used to cover residents’ windows
While they were told this would be for a few days, the plastic was there for five months, meaning they couldn’t see out and had to have their lights on even in daytime.

One man told the Evening Times he’d come home from work to find two workmen having a physical fight in his front garden
This resulted in police and an ambulance being called – and further delays to his upgrade works.

READ MORE: Toryglen flats saga continues with residents claiming 'turmoil'

Residents claimed they had no notice of the works until Thistle employees visited their homes to say they had to pay £2129.10 towards costs.

Some said they were visited on a Tuesday and told they had to pay up by the Thursday or work wouldn’t go ahead.

One man had sewage flood his home six times
READ MORE: Tollcross woman in housing association battle to meet director over late mother's home

In another property, an object was dropped from scaffolding and plunged through a patio – giving a narrow escape to the owner.

A group of residents set up a website to detail the problems they were having and Thistle bosses reported them to the police

In another incident, a resident contacted Thistle to ask for a workman to repair a damaged entry system and was visited by police with an accusation of vandalism instead.

The Evening Times has repeatedly asked how much the project costs have now run to but neither E-on nor Thistle will divulge the answer"

gamerchick · 26/08/2018 18:06

Why should people earning more than the average income get subsidised council housing

Maybe you would like to explain how it's subsidised... Since nobody else seems to be willing.....

HelenaDove · 26/08/2018 23:26
FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 27/08/2018 01:38
messageinabottleofgin · 27/08/2018 01:52

Did council housing used to be subsidised but now isn't? Is that why people are confused? (I know nothing about the system but am assuming rent isn’t subsidised by the comments here.)

Why do people want council homes if they are the same rent as the rest of the market? What is special about them?

bookbuddy · 27/08/2018 02:04

No one is saying your situation is fair, but it’s a situation many face. You should be happy for your friends good fortune not feeling bitterness towards them after all it’s not your friends that had created the injustice. Your friends are merely using the opportunity as you would in their situation. Your anger should lie with the government not your friends.

HelenaDove · 27/08/2018 02:10

message there is not a lot of difference these days. The gap has been closing for a while.

speye.wordpress.com/

MistressoftheYoniverse · 27/08/2018 02:10

Stop being envious ... it will consume you..ask yourself if you were her are you a bad person or someone for whom things fell into place..We need more Social Housing and that is something the government should tackle not your 'friend'..

HelenaDove · 27/08/2018 02:16

from the link.
"Staggeringly high social (sic) landlord evictions … shhh!

Council and housing associations are evicting far too many social tenants and making them homeless and this is THE main issue not tenants who are evicted by private landlords!

That opening statement that goes against all current and past thinking yet the facts bear it out; facts that social landlords and the housing commentariat refuse to even recognise despite the facts staring them in the face. Take the following two facts:

• UK has 53% private properties and 47% socially rented ones.

• UK evictions show 54% private to 46% social housing evictions.

These are not contentious facts and official figures and they reveal eviction rates of tenants correspond to the type of landlord and this is deeply concerning. In context and for any semblance of a like-for-like comparison you almost need a special dispensation from the Pope to evict the social tenant while the private landlord can evict without any reason whatsoever.

Social (sic) landlord evictions are thus staggeringly and disproportionately high in any like-for-like comparison with the private rented sector.

Why? – Why are evictions of social tenants so illogically high? Why? – Why has there been no recognition of the fact that social tenant evictions are so unreasonably and disproportionately high? How the hell has this been missed?

I suspect it is because we don’t want to recognise this fact in the first place let alone address the problems it creates in homelessness. Just to recognise and accept it – and the fact cannot be denied – means that attention is drawn away from the ease of evicting the private tenant with its legal framework of no-fault evictions and thus insecure tenure private tenants have.

We can and should still state that no-fault evictions are anathema and campaign for better protection and rights for private tenants and there is increasing evidence that all political parties are more inclined to act in this area, even the Conservative Party are more inclined to regulate the private rental market and this was also apparent before the last election and not just a convenient position taken now they have little authority as government.

YET given that social landlord evictions are so high despite the legal constraints and difficulties social landlords face in evicting the social tenant and despite much tighter regulation of the social housing sector than the private landlord sector we find that in any like-for-like comparison that social tenant evictions are a greater number and a greater problem.

That paragraph above is one I thought I would never write. It reads like a political theoretical tract from an uber right-wing polemic from a free marketeer chinless policy wonk; and also reads like an apologia for the private landlord to remain unshackled and to deny the need for any form of regulation or scrutiny of the free market private landlord. Both of these positions are anathema yet the excessively high social landlord eviction rate in comparison to the private landlord eviction rate gives grounds (no pun intended) for those arguments to be given oxygen.

This is why I suspect awareness of the unreasonably and illogically high social (sic) landlord eviction rate is kept quiet and not reported as doing so would let the ‘nasty’ private landlord off the hook – yet in taking that position it lets the nasty social landlord off the hook!

The hypocrisy of the social landlord good private landlord bad strategy that the (claimed) social housing sector has propagated and repeated as a mantra to any criticism of social landlords for decades unravels starkly here and as a result the social tenant gets shafted and the dire problem of social landlord evictions is not addressed. Is that a consequence of two-thirds of social tenants having a private registered provider – the correct name for housing associations – as landlord and who have no legal duties to house or rehouse anyone unlike councils who do because they are public authorities?

I suspect so as a tenant evicted by a housing association becomes the problem of and cost to a council and no longer a problem for the housing association. The evicted and former HA social tenant is a victim of social dumping.

We need to urgently address the major problem of the eviction of social tenants and its unacceptably and illogically high number. It could be the increasing use of the same no-fault eviction tenure (AST) by soicial landlords that private landlords operate in starter and introductory tenants that is reason for this high rate. It could be the increasing use of the only mandatory eviction reason and thus one step removed no-fault eviction in Ground 8 used by housing associations and which councils cannot use. It could be the increasing private rental arms of both housing associations and councils using AST to give them this no-fault eviction option too.

It is likely to be a combination of these issues yet whatever is causing the excessive, unacceptable and excessively high social (sic) landlord eviction numbers it has to be recognised, scrutinized and addressed.

_

The numbers of evictions by tenure and the detail of those numbers is contained here which also asks why the hell the usual suspects of JRF, Guardian, Shelter and the rest of the great and good of the housing commentariat failed to even spot the very high social tenant eviction rate.

Since I published that post I note that the usual politicians in the Labour Party and the Green Party have welcome and promoted the JRF report in the same sycophantic way and backed its calls for greater regulation of the private rented sector while saying absolutely bugger all about the high rate and number of social tenant evictions. For once it would be positive if they could recognise fact and not predetermined assumption"

Lizzie48 · 27/08/2018 02:39

Wow, with 'friends' like you, who needs enemies, OP?? You shouldn't even refer to her as a friend as you clearly have a huge chip on your shoulder about her.

I'm thinking of the saying 'life isn't fair', and it really isn't. We all have good things and bad things happen to them. Your friend's OH lost his dad in his early 20s, how long ago was that? He's very likely grieving and would prefer to have his dad around. They're making the most of their opportunity, though, saving their salaries and not squandering money on drink and drugs. Good for them.

I inherited money when my F died and used it to buy a one-bedroom flat in Greater London mortgage free. I made a clear profit when I sold it on marrying my DH. I know I benefited a lot from inherited money, there may have been friends who were jealous of me. But I'm also a survivor of childhood SA at the hands of the F whose money I used to buy the flat.

Basically, good and bad things happen to all of us. Your friends are fortunate in being able to save money. I can understand why you might feel hard done by, but it isn't their fault that you're in the situation you're in and comparisons are a waste of time.

HelenaDove · 27/08/2018 02:47

Lizzie Thanks

elkiedee · 27/08/2018 06:17

message, have posted earlier in the thread. Council housing isn't subsidised because it's council housing - most council housing was built long enough ago that rents have already paid for the costs of land and building several times over, and more than pay for housing management. Newer social housing is mostly housing association and at slightly higher rents.

Rent subsidies called housing benefit are available to some tenants, but this will be to those on benefits, including many elderly and retired tenants who will have paid full rent in the past, and to very low paid working people, many of whom have children. Much housing benefit is to private tenants not ones in social housing, and therefore if anyone;'s being subsidised it's the landlords! People earning a good wage don't get housing benefit and the lower than market rent isn't a subsidy.

Private rents are higher because private rent is set to make a profit for landlords and agents, and often needs to cover the cost of a mortgage. Potential private rent levels can push up house prices and then a new owner who is letting out a home will need to charge more to pay off their buy to let mortgage. So HB has funded parts of the private housing market.

As mentioned by other posters, the gap is closing because of government ideology - they would like everything to be a market, for the profit of those who already have money to spend on property they don't live in as well as on their own homes. Many "social rents" are going up and there are local and national campaigns to keep council housing at council rents.

elkiedee · 27/08/2018 06:28

HelenaDove - the article you've posted about social landlord evictions makes some important points but there are some things that need clarifying.

Council tenants on Secure Tenancies (legal term hence initial capitals) have more rights when it comes to eviction, although some still face rent arrears evictions etc.

But increasingly "social housing" is by housing associations, also known as Registered Social Landlords. Tenants often have higher rents and less security of tenure. Some social landlords also have different levels of social housing - different prices and types, and both the current and previous governments have pushed more shared ownership and marketisation rather than lower rents.

There are also many places where council estates are being replaced by developments with much reduced social housing, and this is likely to require evictions where tenants haven't otherwise been conned into moving elsewhere or giving up tenancies.

So I'm not disputing a problem with the level of evictions, but I think any analysis of this needs to address questions like who the landlords actually are - a council or a property developer calling itself a Housing Association? Who is being evicted and why? Breakdown of tenures etc?

Kemer2018 · 27/08/2018 06:56

Yanbu. It's natural to feel a bit peed off with this.
Life certainly isn't fair.
But he lost his Dad rather early which is pretty hard.
Why would he have surrendered his dad's rental in london? He would possibly struggle to find anything as good even on their income.
It's horrid to struggle financially even whilst working hard, and i watched my mum struggle to raise 3 kids on naff all with no wftc. So i do feel your frustration.
Can you consider relocating in the future to reduce costs?

user1457017537 · 27/08/2018 07:35

There are many HA blocks in Central London where the tenants are most definetly not working class either. Very desirable addresses.

nellyolsenscurl · 27/08/2018 12:13

Do the children of families living in SH still get priority for SH? In my work I go into a lot of SH estates and although it has nothing to do with my job I often get told of the plights of families who are waiting to be rehoused because of overcrowding. A family of 4 may have got a 3 bed house but gone on to have 2 more dc and then the eldest teen dc has a baby or 2 and they are living in 'terrible overcrowding' and it is disgraceful as they NEED a bigger house (and the DD with the baby NEEDS her own place too)
It all seems like a never ending cycle of people who NEED SH and the government are a disgrace because they have been on the waiting list for 6 months and still have not got a bigger house. The estates seem to comprise of people who grew up there and there is open animosity to 'outsiders' being given houses when X amount of people from 'inside' need a house.

There seems to be a massive sense of entitlement once you are in a SH that it is up to the government to facilitate your ever expanding family. There was a thread recently about a poster lamenting because her LA would not give her a 2 bed before her first baby was born, and how on earth could they manage in a 1 bed?! That very much is the attitude that I see. Everyone who grows up in SH expects SH too.

HelenaDove · 27/08/2018 17:26

nelly im childfree by choice and live in a one bedroom social housing flat See if id wanted children i would have had them then probably been moved to a two bedroom flat ..........then a three bedroom and so on and so on etc. But because ive never wanted to be a parent ive stayed where i am.

What do you think would happen if every SH tenant in a one bedroom place did as i did? No one bedroom place would ever be freed up for another tenant would it and consequently even more people would be paying bedroom tax.

Even if they wernt having children in the way you describe the likelihood is that the alternative situ they would find themselves in is a low paid job in a supermarket or care home or maybe even as a childminder for some of the more well off parents who might be posting on here so the likelihood is they would still need social housing to live in because those jobs do not a mortgage make.

Do you envy them?

HelenaDove · 27/08/2018 17:42

oh and im very happy to be in a one bedroom place before anyone starts. For two and a half years between 1992 and 1994 DH and i were renting a bedsit from a private landlord. all DH and i wanted was for the living room not to be the same room as the bedroom.

Although the bedsit had its problems that private landlord didnt interfere in our lives at all The same cant be said for our HA.

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