To work full time to fund DHs preferred lifestyle?

[Smoothsailing9]

Bit of background first. My DH has a professional job which he trained for at university and has done ever since (20 years). He earns approx £50,000 a year. I went to university but did an arts degree, then trained as a teacher but didn’t enjoy it. Worked in various fairly low paid arts related jobs until I had DCs and took several years out. Returned to work part time when youngest was 3. My mum has always willingly provided free childcare/ after school supervision. I now have a 20 hours per week job I really enjoy but is very low paid compared to DH, I bring home around £8,000 a year.

A few days ago eldest DS was talking about a new phone he wants for Xmas. We discussed it and told him it was way too expensive. Obviously he moaned and sulked - he is 14. But DH used the opportunity to go on a massive rant about how little money he has, how he can’t afford a new car and foreign holiday every year etc and eventually, as I knew it would, it ended up being my fault for not bringing enough money in. This was in front of DCs. I was upset but left it.

Then about 3am that night DH wakes me up to say he’s really stressed about money. I said, I’m not discussing this in the middle of the night and went downstairs to make a cup of tea (I don’t sleep very well). He followed me and started a huge row about how “someone of your intelligence should be earning more” and “ if I’d married someone in my industry, I’d be fine”. Went on about how much more his friends earn, how I’ve got no savings or pension (although I actually have), how he wants me to get a full time job.

He brings all this up regularly but it’s really upset me this time. Although he’s a good dad, I do all the housework, paperwork, shopping and cooking and the ‘mental load’ stuff. I spend all my time not at work doing stuff for the house and family, whereas he just works, comes home and relaxes. If I worked full time his life would change massively. He might be able to buy a nicer car, but he’d need to take on half of the running of the house and I know he wouldn’t. I would certainly go back full time when the DCs can look after themselves more, but I just can’t see how I’d manage it now. Also, I am really low maintenance and really don’t cost him a lot. Don’t drink, no expensive hobbies, buy all my clothes off eBay. So AIBU not to look for a full time job?

If they got divorced would she be entitled to half his pension?

I don't know, but given the kids' ages I would expect that a settlement would take into account the fact that she is capable of working full time (amongst other things as well, of course).

Do settlements take into account the fact that one partner’s earning potential has been adversely affected by taking a career break to be a SAHP?

As ppl have pointed out, OP wouldn’t be able to walk into a £30k pa job after so long out of the job market.

I don't know, but given the kids' ages I would expect that a settlement would take into account the fact that she is capable of working full time (amongst other things as well, of course).

His pension contributions at the time of the divorce would be part of the marital assets so she would be entitled to half at the time of divorce (or the equivalent e.g. she might get a higher share of the house if he kept all his pension).

I haven't read the full thread, only the first few pages, but it seems that he completely fails to appreciate the value you bring to the marriage.

I think you should list all the unpaid work that you do, and how much it would cost to pay someone to do it. Research actual rates in your local area. For example: Gardening 2 hrs per week = £30, laundry n loads per week = £x, ironing 1 hr per week = £x, cleaning 10 hrs per week = £100, cooking n hrs per week = £x, shopping n hrs per week = £x, admin n hrs per week = £x, taxi kids to school = £x

List EVERYTHING that you do. Price it all up at commercial rates. Work out how much extra money you would bring home from a full time job. Tell him if he wants you to work full time then he will have to to fund the gap or step up and do the jobs himself.

Do settlements take into account the fact that one partner’s earning potential has been adversely affected by taking a career break to be a SAHP?

I think that the marital assets are usually split equally. Although he may have to pay some spousal maintenance for a short period of time after that he would be free to keep his salary after paying CM.

Her pension would also be considered as part of the pot...

Agree with Alldaylong1 100%, there are more / deeper underlying issues in this relationship, and we don’t know OP’s complete circumstances

Do settlements take into account the fact that one partner’s earning potential has been adversely affected by taking a career break to be a SAHP?

As far as I am aware, they do (can't see the point in being married if they don't). My understanding was that they start on a 50:50 basis and then go from there, taking into account matter such as a SAHP's contribution, but also, if relevant, the fact that the kids are now adolescents and working full time is not unreasonable.

I don't think spousal maintenance has disappeared but my understanding is that it's very rare these days.

Happy to be corrected on any of this.

Ah OK, AynRandTheObjectivist.

I worked part time to bring our son up which was mine and my Husband's joint decision but I'm now studying as well and hopefully next year will be working full time. I just feel I want to contribute but not for cars etc it's for the future.

I don't understand how nasty people are on here though and often wonder if they talk to people in real life like this.

Also, people with these final salary pensions. That is great but these sort of pensions are disappearing and won't be there for the younger generations.

I worked part time to bring our son up till he was 11 I mean't to say.

I worked part time to bring our son up which was mine and my Husband's joint decision but I'm now studying as well and hopefully next year will be working full time. I just feel I want to contribute but not for cars etc it's for the future.

It really doesn't matter how the labour is divided, as long as both people in the situation are happy with it. But given how many SAHMs on here say they are really stressed and worn down with being solely responsible for everything child and home related (I certainly would be, I could never be a SAHM), it's not unreasonable to imagine that being solely responsible for bringing in money might also be stressful. It may be fine when work is going well, but all it takes is the whisper of takeovers and redundancies, or a bullying boss, and it could all come crashing down.

I think what's got a lot of people's backs up is OP's title, which I must say I don't care for either.

If each of them resents the idea of working to fund the other's lifestyle, as they see it, then the problems in the relationship sound deep to me. People who love and care for each other, and have a jointly agreed division of labour, do not see things in those terms.

Bottom line is: she is in a far more vulnerable position than he is. Even if assets are split 50/50, the impact on her is going to be far greater. He can continue the work he’s doing now and downsize his housing (all quite doable) whereas she hasn’t worked full time for years and earns peanuts. I’m quite sure her lifestyle would change more than his.

Whether she stays in the marriage or goes, the recurring theme here is that she’s laid herself wide open. She’s in a comfort zone that works for her (job wise) but is ignoring the much bigger issues- unhappy marriage, her lack of financial independence, lack of pension ... overall she doesn’t have security. People keep talking as if it would be a massive shock to him, but frankly it’s easier when you split up if you’re earning 50k to hire a cleaner than it is to start over on a part time wage of 8k

I wouldn't say spousal maintenance has disappeared. More that there's a general move towards a more stringent approach and it's more and more likely to be time limited. Especially when the receiving spouse is relatively young and theoretically has lots of time to get themselves back on track financially.

OP might get something, but it would likely be for a limited period while she builds up to being able to cover more of her own financial needs. It would potentially be to her disadvantage in this respect that she has kept working, so could potentially earn an FT income much more quickly than someone who'd been out of the workplace for 15 or 20 years. I suspect she's probably no more than mid 40s either and possibly younger, which also leaves more time for her to work and recover her financial position. Her DH is also not that high an earner so may not have a massive amount left after paying child maintenance and his own living costs, so this would also be taken into account.

Thus, I'd be viewing any spousal maintenance as a nice extra but not planning for it to be of long term, significant assistance in the event of divorce.

He frittered 30k?

What did he spend it on and over how many months/ years??

The 30K was for a BTL that didn't succeed. We do not know how involved OP was in that decision.

My y

If all the money she earnt by getting one of these mythical well paid jobs from the well paid job money tree was spent on new toys for him, what's in it for her? Nothing at all except less time to do everything needed to run a household.

Well I expect he's wondering what's been in it for him all these years, having been responsible for the bulk of the mortgage payment, pension saving, funding the DC and eventually covering uni?

Arrangements only work when both parties are happy with them.

The 30K was for a BTL that didn't succeed. We do not know how involved OP was in that decision

Or indeed why it failed. Pure luck can play a big part in the property market.

What's been in it for him is 20 years of not doing a stroke of work other than that which pays money. He's been cooked for, cleaned up after, had his garden maintained, his children cared for, his finances managed and his car valeted. That sounds like quite a lot to me.

@Momo27 I think your post is spot on. Plus OP needs to realise the kids at 12/14yrs old are probably way less reliant on her than she'd like to believe. If her DH leaves and gets 50:50 custody he'll not even need childcare by this point.

I think OP needs to really look at her situation here carefully.

I think that you are being very unfair to him. I'm a worry wart about Money and always have been. If my husband had a hobby job that paid peanuts and left the stress of being the breadwinner to me, I'd be incredibly resentful. You've had a good run, it's time to contribute properly to the finances of the house.

Well I expect he's wondering what's been in it for him all these years, having been responsible for the bulk of the mortgage payment, pension saving, funding the DC and eventually covering uni?

If he is wondering what what is in it for him he is a dick. He has had the freedom to have a career with nothing to hinder him such as childcare/housework and now has the security of a reasonably high income in the future. OP on the other hand has probably worked just as hard overall but much of the work was unpaid and should she split from her DH she will probably find it virtually impossible to earn as much as her DH now can.

He earns approx £50,000 a year. I went to university but did an arts degree, then trained as a teacher but didn’t enjoy it. Worked in various fairly low paid arts related jobs until I had DCs and took several years out. Returned to work part time when youngest was 3. My mum has always willingly provided free childcare/ after school supervision. I now have a 20 hours per week job I really enjoy but is very low paid compared to DH, I bring home around £8,000 a year.

In the original post the OP has said she has always worked in low paid jobs even before she had children and she gave up teaching because she didn’t enjoy it.
This gives the impression that she isn’t interested in working to provide for her family and contribute a decent salary but rather works in low paid jobs because she enjoys it. It isn’t a surprise her husband is annoyed and is stressed. This is nothing new to the OP her husband has made it clear to her before that he isn’t happy with how much she is contributing.
The OP is selfish as she said in a previous post that if her husband wants more money then he should get a new job that pays more. Why? When she contributes an abysmal 8K per year. A library assistant sounds ’nice’ but it certainly won’t see your children through university.

For those saying 58K is a decent/good salary it isn’t to me. I earn more than that and would struggle to support me and my DC if my DH and I separated.
It is all relative and it depends on outgoings but you can’t live a great life on 58k when taking into consideration mortgages and general household expenses.

I am sorry you are being unreasonable. At 12 and 14 there is no need for you to be working part time. Your children should be getting independent now. I work full time. School letters get read, dinner gets cooked, cleaned up after. Kids tidy their rooms. House gets tidied. Paperwork gets done

I earn close to what your Dh does and my partner also works. I would be unbelievably stressed if I was the only earner

Blue lady- yeah because earning 50k is a piece of piss. Employers just fall over themselves to hand it over for nothing.

Ffs

Tbh if the dh were earning absolutely shed loads id have less sympathy. At that level he could well have a fair bit of autonomy and control to pick and choose how and when he does stuff. A professional at 50k is good money but not the big bucks... he’s answerable to a boss, probably carrying quite a lot of responsibility, perhaps making tough decisions. Day in day out. Not the luxury of a bit of down time after sending the kids off to school. Not the luxury of working part time in a job by her own admission the OP says makes her very happy. To be frank, doing a nice little hobby job 20 hours a week and then fitting in housework, with two secondary age children is way easier than a full time job earning 50k

You have to ask why the OP is so resistant to earning to her potential ... she tried it once, when she trained to be a teacher, and didn’t like it! Time to step up now OP- whether you stay or go, it’s for your own benefit ultimately because 8k is never going to get you anywhere