To work full time to fund DHs preferred lifestyle?

[Smoothsailing9]

Bit of background first. My DH has a professional job which he trained for at university and has done ever since (20 years). He earns approx £50,000 a year. I went to university but did an arts degree, then trained as a teacher but didn’t enjoy it. Worked in various fairly low paid arts related jobs until I had DCs and took several years out. Returned to work part time when youngest was 3. My mum has always willingly provided free childcare/ after school supervision. I now have a 20 hours per week job I really enjoy but is very low paid compared to DH, I bring home around £8,000 a year.

A few days ago eldest DS was talking about a new phone he wants for Xmas. We discussed it and told him it was way too expensive. Obviously he moaned and sulked - he is 14. But DH used the opportunity to go on a massive rant about how little money he has, how he can’t afford a new car and foreign holiday every year etc and eventually, as I knew it would, it ended up being my fault for not bringing enough money in. This was in front of DCs. I was upset but left it.

Then about 3am that night DH wakes me up to say he’s really stressed about money. I said, I’m not discussing this in the middle of the night and went downstairs to make a cup of tea (I don’t sleep very well). He followed me and started a huge row about how “someone of your intelligence should be earning more” and “ if I’d married someone in my industry, I’d be fine”. Went on about how much more his friends earn, how I’ve got no savings or pension (although I actually have), how he wants me to get a full time job.

He brings all this up regularly but it’s really upset me this time. Although he’s a good dad, I do all the housework, paperwork, shopping and cooking and the ‘mental load’ stuff. I spend all my time not at work doing stuff for the house and family, whereas he just works, comes home and relaxes. If I worked full time his life would change massively. He might be able to buy a nicer car, but he’d need to take on half of the running of the house and I know he wouldn’t. I would certainly go back full time when the DCs can look after themselves more, but I just can’t see how I’d manage it now. Also, I am really low maintenance and really don’t cost him a lot. Don’t drink, no expensive hobbies, buy all my clothes off eBay. So AIBU not to look for a full time job?

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds

If you marry someone who openly behaves like that, and then you complain that they behave like that... Who else can you blame?

He didn't hide his attitude. He didn't hide his sexism or laziness. She married him. And now she's unhappy about his sexism and laziness. What else did she expect?

We all have responsibility over our own choices and if we make a mistake then it's just that... OUR mistake. And you can't blame anyone else.

Naomi so that means she should suck it up and go out to work full-time because it’s her fault? Lovely must tell that to my dh who works full-time while I study full-time to retrain that he should do less around the house because he’s had to take on more the last couple of years because that’s what he signed up for when we met.

I think people are giving OP an unnecessarily difficult time. She took time off to have kids allowing DH to build up his professional career, that leaves her in a far poorer situations in terms of her choice of career than she would be otherwise. I don't think it's fair that she should have to work a job that would be miserable for her while her DH gets to work in his chosen career. She's also mentioned that he is unwilling to pull his weight at home so she would be taking on a full time job while also doing all the household stuff. That's totally unfair

This.

I'm really surprised at the level of negative attacking posts early on this thread. I assumed that many MNetters would understand the stresses on the wife of all the wifework and emotional labour, in addition to all the housework.

I wonder if the responses would have been different if @Smoothsailing9 had framed her OP as:
I do all the housework, family care, emotional labour and wifework, but my DH attacked me verbally for only being able to work part-time

I wonder if the response would be different?

Yes, I absolutely understand the burden of having to work as the main breadwinner (I've been that all my life), but the OP is also working full-time to facilitate her DH's earning.

They are a team (how often have I read that here?) but the OP's DH does not seem to recognise or value the OP's work and contribution to the family well-being.

@Smoothsailing9 I think you should try not doing all the stuff you do, just for a week, and show your DH what you contribute.

Am I the only person who thinks a household income of £58k is pretty good?! (In fact it's probably more than that if you get child benefit.) I'd be looking at improving your budget if that's leaving you tight for cash.

@LooksBetterWithAFilter

Your comparison makes absolutely no sense. You and your husband obviously help each other around the house and always have.

This is a man who has never bothered. Did she make his doing housework a condition of remaining in the relationship? Did she leave him because she saw he did no work?

No. She married him and had kids. And now complains that he's never done any work. Well, he was like that from the beginning. He didn't hide who he was. If she didn't like it then she shouldn't have chosen him as her partner in life. Men like that rarely change.

It's like marrying an alcoholic and then complaining about it as if you expected them to be different.

I disagree naomi. I think you can always blame the person behaving badly.
Probably 20 years ago, the domestic work wadn't too onerous, so she made the mistake of doing it. Add in the children and her own job and it's probably harder. But even so, she isn't complaining about doing it - he wants to change the way they live, so he ought to be prepared to get off his arse and help.

I made loads of mistakes 20 years ago on account of being younger snd less experienced- saying a person should just put up with the consequences forever is a bit harsh.

(FWIW I think the husband is being unreasonable for not recognising the value of all the "wifework" OP is doing. But I also think anyone who thinks £58k a year isn't a lot of money is unreasonable! I only know 4 people IRL who have that kind of income. Mumsnet is a parallel universe sometimes).

This, in reverse, is part of what killed my relationship with DP.

I couldn't handle being financially responsible for everything, all of the time, while he was living a semi-retired life.

I am not saying you don't work hard in the home, but you do need to support him. He is telling you he is struggling, and that's a hard thing to admit, especially for a man. I imagine he would love to be able to comfortably support his family and not need financial help from you, but he is telling you he can't.

If it was the other way round, people would be telling you to leave him, and calling him a cock lodger.

You need to step up and try and do something to help him out.

Financial pressures felt on one side will destroy a relationship.

What naominegata says

Marriages don’t remain static over the years. It’s a process of ongoing communication and negotiation. Looking after pre school children and the house may well amount to the equivalent of a full time job. Having school age children doesn’t. Even factoring in medical appointments, sick days etc there is no way anyone can deny that what may have been a balanced situation several years ago has now become imbalanced.

It’s interesting isn’t it that on numerous threads about whether things are ‘fair’ the Mumsnet benchmark is whether both partners have equal amounts of ‘down time.’ The OP at the moment is definitely having the easier time. Even if she’s doing all the domestic stuff, that hardly amounts to a huge job with school age kids. You put on a wash, switch button and wait to hang it up. It’s hardly hand washing and putting it through the mangle in the 21st century. Ditto for shopping- do an online grocery shop, job done. You’re not trailing round shops with a basket any more. And anyway all these things are done by thousands of couples (and single people) who work full time.

It may well be that the dh hasn’t gone about communicating this in the best way, and to start talking about wishing he’d married someone else is cruel. But the underlying message is: he’s not happy with the balance of things now. The OP can either blindly ignore that and the marriage will go down the shitter, or start communicating with her dh and renegotiate.

*He didn't hide his attitude. He didn't hide his sexism or laziness. She married him. And now she's unhappy about his sexism and laziness. What else did she expect?

She might have guessed that she would end up doing most of the housework, but how would she know that she would end up doing all the childcare. Even if she did, how could she anticipate the fact that he would be totally unappreciative of her contribution?

My father was very sexist (as were most people at the time) and much expected my mother to do all the housework and childcare but he still appreciated her contribution and I am sure that he never gave her any grief for working part time and earning a lower salary than him.

I have to say, I don’t fathom how any fit and healthy adult isn’t out there earning a living. A friend works like a dog while her husband stays home, ostensibly to look after their now school-going daughter. Freeloader comes to mind and I don’t know how she puts up with it. OP, do look for something that pays more. I doubt you’ll regret it.

If he's feeling the financial burden of being the main earner, that's different but what op said is that he wants to be able to spend more on himself

Sit down with him & work out all the family spends - including his lunches & hobby

If you have to go back to work full time - itemise out all the family tasks at home & split them so he knows he's going to have to shop & cook 3 meals one week & do school drop offs etc

He needs to know that this won't be a case of you working more with no impact to his daily life

Do you ever wonder how millions of women working full time with school age children manage? After school clubs, holiday clubs etc. It's all possible.

I can't actually believe you resent your DP for buying his lunch every day.

I would be hugely resentful if my partner earned £8k - sorry!

Do you realise you're not even earning minimum wage for over 25's at those hours?
OP says she 'brings home* £8000, so I assume that means after tax, NI, pension, etc.

I think that both parties make sacrifices and bear pressure in order to afford one person doing SAHP, and that as the need for SAHP dissipates, BOTH parents should have their load lightened equally. The wage earner should no longer be the one worrying alone about where the rent/mortgage is coming from and lying awake at night, they should finally be able to change jobs if their current one males them feel like killing themselves etc - neither they or the former SAHP should have to do more than half of anything any longer.

I see this as the same thing as if DH now said "I'm only going to work part time now doing something I like. My new wages are £8000 pa deal with it, I'll run the hoover around every day". No, neither should become semi-retired and do a hobby job at the expense of the other without mutual agreement.

Mental load and running the house - we all need to do that. It is just simply not an excuse for not being able to work

The OP does work! She just doesn't work full time, like a lot of women.

OP says she 'brings home* £8000, so I assume that means after tax, NI, pension, etc

No Tax or NI on £8,000 though surely?

I would be hugely resentful if my partner earned £8k - sorry!

Yeah, me too.

You've been able to leave jobs you don't like, only do what you enjoy. That option hasn't been open to him as someone has to keep the financial show on the road.

I don't blame him at all for wanting you to share the load. What would you do if he got made redundant for example?

I agree that your roles were more even when the kids were smaller, but you need to adjust as they get older.

Really that’s it in a nutshell. He’s not happy, he’s stressed about money and and the OP is pottering along in a part time job because she doesn’t want the pressure of something more

No that isn't remotely it. He wants more money for an even better material lifestyle than the good lifestyle the already have.

The OP has a job which is already 20hrs a week and local/flexible enough to allow her to do 100% of all family/household/childcare including a child with MH problems with all the extra care/related health appointments. The assumption she can just waltz into a job with that kind of flexibility and more money is wildly optimistic.

His life has been made easier for 20 yrs by having her take total responsibility for these things. I've never seen an adult who has spent 20+ yrs doing bugger all at home/family care suddenly change to allow the home based partner to work outside the home .

There would be no point in earning more if it all goes paying some other woman to do the jobs her DH is too good for. He is prioritising his own desire for material benefits over the rest of the family, including that DC.

I've always been the high earner and often entirely financially responsible for the whole family including several young children. I know exactly what its like. I am astonished at the denigrating and trivialising of the value of the non financial role in supporting a family on a female led forum.

I doubt very much if the OP gets more leisure time than her h - he is the one with the hobbies and weekends away. And it really isn't restful looking after someone with mh issues.

I hardly know anyone where both parents work full time in full on jobs. We have done it for short periods but it isn't a sustainable model.

The OP's DH could take responsibility and change his job if he doesn't like it.

Its the minimum wage which is £7.83 an hour, though it could be a bit more because of rounding, pension etc. Many jobs only pay this or just above, though in the world of MN this is practically unheard of on these sorts of threads. I'm guessing OP does not earn exactly £8000.

Plus the casual assumption that anyone can get a higher paid job or longer hours if only they could be arsed

The Op used to be in a decent career which pays alright - teaching - she has the capability to earn more.

The thing is, the DH is working full-time to fund HER lifestyle.

OP, you can earn so much more than that, I am sure. And the good thing about working full-time is that you will have more money not just to buy things, but to delegate the tasks you hate or are not very good at.

I am probably not a good example as I work 100+ hours per week, but I have a cleaner and a homework tutor for my kids, because those are the two things that cause me the most stress. The fact that I don't have to do them makes life so much easier.

There are always work stresses; DH might be worrying about redundancy, or wishing he could take a risk on changing roles. Wanting to just take some holidays doesn't keep anyone up at night, that isn't the reason. It sounds like both are really taking each other for granted in the roles they ended up in. He's saying he wants it to change, so OP should be working with him; that starts with understanding what he wants to be different and why. With school age children and only household tasks at home - get a good cleaner, do the shopping online and rotate mealtimes plus cleanup (including the older kids cooking a meal and clearing up). That's 90% of your stay at home role covered at least; managing the kids is a role that expands or contracts to the time available, just discuss it with DH - maybe you could both do 4 days per week. Then there's plenty of time to work more hours and earn more. If you have a degree then you're literate; you don't need to stick with low-paid arts jobs, nor teaching; apply for other roles that use your skills but pay better.