Rise of measles

[crosstalk]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/european-measles-death-toll-hits-37-after-antivax-campaigns-ztmwl9f3q

Just saying

(But thanks awfully for telling me what I should or shouldn’t feel the need to do. That’s not patronising at all.)

So @Arthuritis and a couple of other posters who have asked me my feelings on using other medication, I do not use symptom suppressing medication at all. From the explanation contained in my posts from last night, I believe that this is not only ignorant, but can also be very dangerous.

Sorry I didn’t answer this straight away. It required more information than a simple answer and I’ve been working so didn't have time.

My child has also not had a bacterial infection so I’ve not had to use antibiotics either. But needless to say my view on antibiotics is that they should be used as an absolute last resort because of the damaging effect they have on the micro biome within the body which is of course the cornerstone of our immune system.

My child is registered with my GP and also attends school. In their entire primary years so far (nearing the end) they have had just 2 days off school with a tummy bug. This isn’t because I insist in sending my child to school sick, they just haven’t needed to be off. So quite the opposite of my child going round infecting everyone.

CathMidston, we left the elimination reactions to run free for centuries before medicine found alternatives. You just have to look at child death rates to see how well that worked.

Yes and look at the nutritional status and societal/economic factors/, lack of clean water, effective sewage etc etc etc etc over this period to see how a toxic overload and unsanitary conditions, and nutrient deficiency’s would have contributed to that. Or is that concept too complicated for you to grasp

Cath. What do you mean 'symptom supressing ' medication? Antibiotics supress symptoms. Sepsis is a group of symptoms arising from overwhelming bacterial colonisation in the body.
People died before antibiotics.
My daughter would have died last year without antibiotics to treat her sepsis due to Pyelonephritis.
Pride comes before a fall.

Does @Cathmidston realise that people can be carriers of disease without being ill with the disease themselves?

grammar antipyretics, decongestants etc ...it’s not rocket science

That's more or less my point, Cath. We sorted out nutrition, clean water, and medical care improved including vaccination. Why are all those advances fine but vaccination isn't? And bear in mind that there has still been a big difference in the rates of serious illness and death before and after the introduction of vaccination in societies which already had clean water, good sanitation and good nutrition.

Does @MissSusanSays Know this:
Although bacteria can break down cells in diseased tissue, cells of the body need to be in a process of decomposition or poisoning first before bacteria will attempt to break them down. Bacteria do not attack healthy, living cells. This is why for example most people have meningococcal bacteria in their bodies without ever contracting meningococcal meningitis and why even in so called epidemics most people never succumb to the disease.

Scare stories of epidemics are widely reported in the media which conjure up images of 10 - 40% of the population being affected, when in fact a polio epidemic for example is actually 35 in 100,000 of the population = 0.035%. Disease levels for other epidemics are often even lower than that.

@Gersemi don’t worry I’m getting round to that. The thing is it’s pointless launching straight into that without providing background and context first

So @Gersemi this is my issue with vaccines...

Immunologists now recognise that most of our immune protection is provided by the natural barriers of the skin and mucous membranes of the digestive system, lungs and the urinary system.

By injecting the chemical contents of the vaccine past the skin, most of the immune system has been bypassed and therefore the major component of our immune system has not been stimulated to respond to the infectious agents that we are trying to protect against.

To put this in context, the is a quote from the EBMO: ‘"Most vaccines used today are of the ‘conventional’ type, many of which were discovered when we had little knowledge of immunology, and absolutely no information on the cells and molecules of the immune system."

By injecting the vaccine chemicals beyond the skin, this means that the dangerous toxins normally blocked and expelled by the outer barriers of the immune system (the skin and mucous membranes of the digestive system, lungs and the urinary system) are given free access to the vital internal organs, brain and nervous system. The internal poisoning of the body by vaccination is exactly what our immune system is designed to avoid.

In order to manufacture sufficient numbers of viruses for vaccines they are mostly grown on animal cells in a laboratory container. The danger of using animal cells to grow human viruses is that there will inevitably be some genes transferred from the animal cells to the virus used in the vaccine which means that new hybrid viruses will be created and therefore injected into the human body. This can ultimately lead to the creation of foreign animal proteins incorporated into the cells of vaccinated individuals giving rise to autoimmune reactions (where the body effectively attacks and rejects its own cells).

The cells that are used to grow vaccine microbes will also contain other viruses and bacteria that we do not want but have no way of completely eliminating. There is an accepted amount of contamination within the vaccine production process. These contaminants can and do cause serious health problems.

That’s enough for now.. too much information at once isn’t helpful

Cath. I feel sorry for your children. If they get ill, you with deny them even a little dose of Calpol, which would make them feel better, so sacrificing them on the alter of YOUR beliefs.
And your argument about better nutrition and sanitation simply doesn't hold water.
You cannot protect everyone against preventable diseases and illnesses just with good nutrition and clean water.
Your children have been lucky. It is a happy coincidence that they have not ended up ill. Simple as that. But that feeds your 'belief', for that is all it is. Faith doesn't stop people dying. Evidence base and our 21st century Western ability to research /treat and prevent diseases does.
Your children will not thank you for denying them symptom relieving medication when they need it or potentially life saving innolucations for preventable diseases. ' Oh Gee Mum, thanks for denying me something that will make me feel better.'

I’m stressing as dd is only 2 so only had one measles vaccine so far - does that mean she’s at risk until she has the second lot?

Absolutely, gersemi.

Grammar to put it more simply for you (my previous post clearly weren’t simple enough)... have you considered that your body creates a fever to help vital elimination of toxins. What do you think happens to those toxins when you suppress that intelligent immune response with ‘a little bit of calpol’ to make them feel better? That the toxins magically disappear?

But your child will feel better. Simple.
Are you furiously googling stupid sites and copying reams from 'What the Doctor doesn't Tell you'?
Off to get GCSE results now. Good luck for anyone else in this position.

Ahhh the anti-vaxxer's favourite word 'toxins' 😂😂

I keep coming back, I don’t know why. Clearly a gluten for punishment.

The Mum I know who’s child is never sick, has a child that is quite often sick (because that’s how children child immunity) but by repeating they are never sick makes the mother feel better. I hate the implication that we’re all happily poisoning our children because we can’t think independently. Real sore point for me right now. Where do you stand on my ds having a blood transfusion even though his body can make blood itself? Better to have another month in hospital? Or at home eating lettuce.

cathmidston I'd like to see the scientific references for the information you are providing. Specifically, well-controlled, large scale epidemiological studies to support your claims about the likelihood of infection transmission.

Grammar... yes but at what cost... because not only does this lead to prolonging the curreng illness but also causes subsequent illnesses to be more severe...

@BlahBlahBlah well done.. another great argument from the pro vaccine militia

Flashing beacon ..how can I possibly comment as I don’t even know why your child has needed a blood transfusion or what his condition is? Chronic? Acute?

Anyway back later.. I shall brace myself

@Cathmidston

You didn't answer my question.

In response to yours- do you even understand what you are saying or how offensive it is to those who have lost loved ones or been permanently scarred by these diseases? You are essentially saying that we brought I on ourselves for being unclean and eating 'toxins'.

You are a loon. A total anti-science, woo loving loon. And a dangerous one to boot. Nothing you are saying is true. It is cherry picked half science that you've twisted for your own bat shit purposes.

Would you tell a family who lost a child to measles that is was just a natural process and congratulate them for not vaccinating?

@WaitingForSunday17

I asked this too. 90% covered until the second dose. Better to stick to the vaccine schedule as it is more effective.

I suggest we all stop giving the crazy antivaxxer air time now. We're just giving her license to say outrageous, stupid, dangerous things. She didn't even know people could be carriers of disease without showing symptoms.

@MissSusanSays* the irony of that statement in view of your other posts is spectacular.
You who have relentlessly attacked and insulted other parents for not vaccinating and who wants to enforce your opinion on them. I’m merely explaining my position and no, I haven’t finished yet. And please be clear, I’m not posting for your benefit. More so because I know there are people lurking who will appreciate an alternative view to that spouted by the sanctimonious posters on these threads