To think you can’t really get a decent PT job unless you already work there

[Metoodear]

So following on from my post about working PT I getting loads of people saying yep rally easy to woke pt I get 30, 40k pro rata blah blah however these are often women who have worked for a company for a number of years then reduced after maternity leave i am also not talking about PT were you drop one day but are still working 9-5 four days a week

This kind of PT working is not what I was talking about I am talking about after having done a qualification then after having 2-5 years out of work after being a SHAM trying to find a PT job that is under 25 hours a week that is not in a school admin or retail in a company you never worked for
i am a support worker but have had to take a job at the lower end of the pay scale in order to secure 20 hours a week working i have friends that have degrees in physiology ect who work in admin and a friend who has a degree in a second language but is really struggling to find anything other than admin or work in a school for less than 25 hours after being at home for8 years

I myself have been looking for another job since I got my curroone and you just don’t see PT ones

Examples of some fairly senior part time roles working for charities that don't require you to already be working there OP:

www.refugee-action.org.uk/about/jobs_at_refugee_action/

Three part time managerial roles listed, RA pay is decent for the sector too. And 29k pro rata is a nice salary in Kirklees.

www.winstonswish.org/vacancies/

3 roles, 2 specify part time hours and one is negotiable part time potentially.

citizensadvicejobs.engageats.co.uk/LoginV2.aspx?enc=vDVLPY6BrOnmx9szwB5icMU/Bp97ap1BlI/jb0LhRYVeoh/cn5bYgvW+9EbbSw7a

Only one of these is part time, can't seem to specifically link, but it's the Team Leader, Volunteer Development at South Yorkshire CAB. 18 hours a week, 23.6k per annum. Admittedly that salary is a bit crap, but then it's not an area with high average wages.

www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs/the-pioneer-group/neighbourhood-initiatives-programme-manager/588668?tsId=2&referrerIsJobSearch=True&rankId=5

Birmingham, 30-34k FT but part time 3-4 days considered.

This was just a quick 5 minute search. In at least two of these organisations I know for a fact that they will offer jobs part time to people they don't already employ as I have friends there. Obviously none of this is much good to people whose skills aren't applicable to the third sector, of course. And just because it's part time doesn't mean the hours will suit any particular individual wanting part time. Still though, they exist.

EXACTLY @momo27 I mean - how unfair that we progress in our careers and earn decent salaries having abused our children by putting them into nursery / paying someone else to look after them!

Careers advice is sadly lacking in schools and universities.

It's easy to find out which career paths lead to the most money, but not which are the most flexible.

Some careers do offer loads of flexibility, and some require you to sell your soul to the rat race for at least 20 years and reach the top of the greasy pole before you can set your own hours. In the main that works for men better than women, due to fertility...

Many people are happier on 30 hours per week and 3/4 of a full time salary than working all hours. Being primarily financially motivated seems quite an unpleasant trait to me, but it takes all sorts...

It would be great if real, holistic careers advice were available when people were starting out, to enable both boys and girls to choose the right path for them.

For many people a happy and fulfilled life is about balance, not about job title and salary at the cost of everything else. For that reason fulfilling part time work is a good option for many different people, not only parents. Nobody ever thinks about this when choosing career path, and it's somehow taboo to discuss, career advice is limited to discussing qualifications and money, where it's available at all.

I haven't read all of the replies so I might be repeating someone but I agree. I was lucky to go back to a managerial role part time after I had my son.

The one thing I have noticed is that companies are advertising jobs as P/T but in reality the workload cannot be done in the hours. I've seen two cases recently where the post has been advertised as 18.5 hours and the workload is more like 30/35. There was little choice in one but to do the allocated work and in the other the manager constantly criticised the member of staff for not completing this impossible workload. They both left. Companies trying to pay part time money for a full time role. The above job was the same - it was agreed that I could go back 30 hours as opposed to 37 but they didn't take any work off me. Luckily it wasn't that stressful of a role and I could do it in 30 hours anyway.

I currently work part time (sales role - shit pay). I wouldn't have been offered the same hours that I do if I had applied for a part time role as a newbie. I would need to finish a 6 month probation and then apply for a part time job.

I've been looking for something else, but finding something is hard, you also then have to get an interview and then be successful.

Some of the jobs advertised are for 15 hours (that's fine, but add in travel, parking etc) it just doesn't make financial sense. So I'm very much stuck in a job I hate until ds is at school and I can look elsewhere.

My problem, the industry I'm in will cease to exist in a years time.

Agree that careers advice could be improved.
Disagree that it’s all about financial motivation. Most people I know want a balance in their life, but tbh a lot of the roles where you work insane hours - eg hospital doctor, you’re more likely to be motivated by the fact you’re doing just about the most valuable job there is.

Also having balance in your life for many people means having enough money to do nice things, travel, eat out now and then and yes- have enough money to not spend your retirement years in poverty.

Things have shifted hugely over recent decades. Even just a couple of generations back, retirement usually meant 10 years of fairly inactive time and then dying. Many people now live 20 or more years in retirement and want to do more than just potter!

MOMO the question of retirement is such a gamble. One of my grandparents lived to be 99, but the other 3 died in their early 60s... I've just seen mil die at 65, having been extremely active until she became ill, and only a couple of months later my colleague's husband, who looked and acted closer to 40 than his actual 62 went up to bed feeling as though he was coming down with a bug and was dead when she went to check on him (heart attack).

Momo and since I haven’t said anywhere it’s abusive to use childcare so fuck off with that comment.

The point I’m making is that, once your child is in school there are 13 weeks of holiday to cover. As and when I get a full time job that will mean DD in holiday clubs for up to 6 weeks a year (that’s if DH and I only take one week’s holiday at the same time). I feel pretty depressed about that. I have no family support, all GPs are in failing health and not local, no local siblings.

I’m not having a pop at those who’ve remained in full time work since their DC were born. I’m struggling with this right now - as DH said we’ll now have some more cash in the bank and no time to spend it. What a shame we can’t live in a society that allows parents to earn a living but not at the cost of family life.

I could actually cry at the though that this time next year DD will be in her 4th week of holiday club on the trot. As people have pointed out, pensions-wise I’m already pretty fucked so I need to do something before it’s too late. I could cry for my little girl who we struggled so hard to bring into the world, who we couldn’t have a sibling for, who will be what feels like alone, with none of her friends or family, for weeks on end.

But hey, the system’s great as it is, working fine, so let’s not even bother to look at how other countries can make it work and just stick with this.

Agree - life’s a gamble! And we’re all individuals and making varying judgements about how much risk we’re prepared to take, and the sort of lifestyle we want.

I could never have been someone who works an 80 hour week, nor could I have coped with a job involving lots of travel and nights away from the kids. But some people thrive on that. Neither could I have gone to the other extreme and taken time out of the work place (other than ML.) I’ve worked my way up to management level, but not to the sort of senior level where I don’t feel the extra pressure is worth it. My dh is quite similar... he’s worked his way up to a similar level but we’ve always tried to keep our careers very much on a par, with neither one massively overtaking the other. And being able to retire early in my 50s and (hopefully!) have an active retirement, it’s been important to me to maximise my work pension by working full time. It works for us. Doesn’t mean it’s the ‘right way’ : there is no right way. It’s horses for courses. I just think that it’s wise to consider the long term as well as immediate impact of any major decisions because although any of us could be run over by a bus tomorrow, statistically we’re probably not going to be.

@BlairWaldorfsHeadband

And for people moaning about being picky about days - no nursery will let me do floating days. I have tried but I have to book my son in for set days, so what am I supposed to do?!

MamaBears do floating days you pick 2 or 3 weeks in advance.

@RiverTam she won't be alone, she'll be with friends at holiday club

RiverTam
Momo and since I haven’t said anywhere it’s abusive to use childcare so fuck off with that comment.”

• can you please reference where I’ve made any comment about childcare being abusive? Thought not. I can see you’re an angry woman but don’t tell me to fuck off with comments that I haven’t ever made

Sorry, since made that comment, I apologise for lumping you in with that. But I certainly have no issue with anyone paying for childcare, I’ve done it myself and DD’s nursery was wonderful. But I’m finding the situation with school much harder, and I’m not angry, I’m pretty down.

Lazy well, I hope so but she’s not been happy at holiday club without knowing people there and has lonely days there. But she’s never been there for weeks at a time. None of her friends from school will be there for that length of time, just her.

I'm on my third part time job since having DD, I was recruited into each role as PT.

This is in the same field I was in pre DD and using the same skills and experience, FTE is comparative to what I was on full time for similar roles.

I work in marketing/communications. I would agree that PT roles are harder to come by, and the types of roles aren't diverse - charity, government, education mostly, very few commercial businesses - but it has been doable for me.

I'm now in a 4 day role which I see you've disqualified from this thread - it's still PT though. Flexibility was advertised so I had room to negotiate during application.

I'd imagine volume is largely dependant on sector but PT roles do exist.

A lot of the comments on here are degrading about choices to put children into childcare e.g ‘why have them then’ that someone else made. Personally, comments like that are tantamount to saying it’s abusive IMO. And it was me that said it not Momo27

Anyone who isn’t a teacher or working in education has to make arrangements for holidays. It’s life! If a holiday club bothers you so much then use a child minder? Or take leave yourself to offset it. Surely you knew this when you had a child?

I find the bleeding heart brigade about childcare and how hideous it is for children a bit hard to take tbh. But then I did them as a child - along with my siblings, but as a family we also had holidays and time away - because my parents worked. They’ve helped send me to uni and contribute to my ‘starting costs’ in life - quite frankly that’s worth a few weeks in a holiday club I enjoyed!

I have a management job and work part-time. It's a job share. There are a lot of part time workers in my industry though so it's not too difficult to find. I can imagine in some sectors it would be incredibly difficult.

I think your specific AIBU is more "AIBU to think that it's going to be impossible to find a school-hours&term-time-only pt job in a very specific and non-school-hours-all-year-round sector when my qualifications are 5 years ago with no hands-on experience to consolidate the theoretical learning"

This says it really. Although I would like to see a more diverse range of employment options it still has to work for the employer. A lot of jobs need a person there full time or who is prepared to be flexible ( work late where necessary for example). What is there about you that makes you so desirable to an employer versus someone with appropriate recent experience and less exacting requirements? All working parents have to juggle work / life balance and cover summer holidays etc and sometimes it’s not ideal. ( My DH and I split Easter one week each for example).

River - thank you for your apology

Out of interest, what do the parents of her school friends do, seeing as they don’t need to use holiday care as much? Could you club together and find a cm? What about an older teenager who’s home from uni for the summer? We used that when our kids got ‘too old’ for holiday club but still needed supervision. They loved that arrangement best actually, hanging out with a cool older girl. Also, there must be other children using your dd’s holiday club (even though they aren’t at her school.) any mileage in trying to arrange a play date one weekend? That way she’ll expand her friendship group. Trying to think of solutions here

We used to live in a village where most mums seemed to have granny on hand for childcare which makes it really tough, it can feel a bit of a lonely place when everyone else either seems to not work or uses granny. Thank god we moved when the children were a bit older!

Lastly, although none of us would ever put our child in a situation where they’re really unhappy, please try not to feel guilty about the fact your dd might not always want to go to holiday club. Our situation was that out of our 3 children, 1 was extremely social, adored any kind of club and it was a treat to go to after school care. 1 was so-so about it: she quite liked seeing her friends but would have been equally happy to come straight home. The 3rd wasn’t into activities and group stuff and tbh Would probably have preferred not to go. But we were a family of 2 adults 3 children. Compromises have to be made. If I (or dh) jacked my career in because one child preferred coming home rather than after school club, then overall the impact would have been far more negative.

Part of life is children learning resilience and that new situations. I’m not for a moment suggesting children should be put in situations where they are actually unhappy and not thriving. That’s different. But pushing them out of their comfort zone in a supportive way; well that’s life.

It also might be a bit of a comfort to you river to know that all 3 children have grown into very well adjusted adults and the one who never liked group activities is the most social of the lot - always out!

But it is hard when you’re going through it, being a parent is never easy and being a working parent brings its extra challenges - as well as extra rewards, financial and in so many other ways.

Absolutely agree.

The kicker here is that every woman who has served as a mentor to me in my career, across a span of companies and industries, has the same answer for "how she did it."

"Oh, I worked part time when the kids were small."

And yet, they refuse, pretty staunchly, to extend that same flexibility to any woman below them in the organsation -- even in cases where the work could demonstrably be done flexibly through working from home, part time, or job sharing.

The mind boggles.

I find the bleeding heart brigade about childcare and how hideous it is for children a bit hard to take tbh. But then I did them as a child - along with my siblings, but as a family we also had holidays and time away - because my parents worked.

Is it impossible to have a bit of empathy for those who feel differently to you?

I hate being away from my kids. I do send him to nursery for two days a week, because I think it’s good for him, and he stays at GPs so it’s not like I keep him in the house, but some of us want a faint balance where we don’t have to palm our kids off to others.

I personally don’t see the point in working to pay someone to look after my kids. I’m NOT saying that everyone else should feel like that.

I had empathy until the comments started. In short - it’s fine to feel like that, but you cannot have everything. And to be clear - I don’t work so someone else can look after my children. I work because I want to, my career is important to me and I want my daughter to see me as a role model. I don’t love being away from my children either but it’s a balance.

Your comments have absolutely zero empathy for anyone with an alternative view. The flip side of not wanting to ‘palm your kids off onto others’ is that you then are massively restricted in what you have as options career wise - which then impacts on your quality of life.

Sorry but your comments in no way suggest you have any empathy for anyone else’s opinion other than, life isn’t fair, why can’t I get a job that works around everything I want to do.

No one has attacked you for working though. That’s how I feel personally about it as in how I would feel if I was doing it to mine, not how I’m saying everyone feels!

I and river both stated we dislike the system that doesn’t prioritise family life.

Where I live all the part-time work is either minimum wage or just above minimum wage. I don't want to work full-time, I don't need to either but I should be paid fairly for what I do.

Blair come on now this is quite an interesting thread about work - please don’t let it descend into the usual bitching. “Palming kids off” ffs.

Surely as mums (and dads) we all adore our children, we all enjoy being with them. Being a SAHP doesn’t mean your bond is any stronger with your kids than that of a WOHP with theirs.

We all do what’s best for our own family - yes family - what works for everyone in it, Dad as well as mum, and for those of us lucky enough to have more than one child, we also have to balance the wants and needs of all of them. To refer back to my previous post, if I’d actually done in isolation what each of my children preferred individually, one would have been in after school club every day til closing time, one would have gone a few times a week and one would have preferred mum in the playground at 3 o’clock every day! Clearly I couldn’t meet their every whim

The main thing is building a family life which is balanced and healthy for all members in it- not just in the here and now but next year, in 5 years time and 10 years time.

MoMo I agree with that, it is an individual thing. My comments aren’t reflective of how others feel, more how I feel about doing it to mine. Probably because as a child I hated any after school club and most social groups.

My issue is the system massively favours working mums over part time and SAHMs. My problem isn’t individual people choosing what suits them best