Is it a right to have Kids you can’t afford!?!

[KN2212]

I am totally fed up of listening to people complain about how broke they are after having kids. Babies and childcare are cripplingly expensive but that’s pretty much common knowledge, right?

I fell out with a long term friend of mine about a year ago. Since the birth of her DD all she did was complain about the situation she’d orchestrated.
Her and her (now ex) partner had no home of their own, low income, high debt and no savings when they decided to go ahead and have a child (though granted had been together for 7 years). The poor boyfriend busted his butt working 13 hour shifts 6 days a week in a call centre whilst they all lived in one cramped room at her parents and she complained he wasn’t doing enough. Due to her crippling shopping debts and inability to hold a job they were never going to make enough to live and knew that pre getting pregnant.

(Other friends are in similar situations, complaining about how they ‘can’t afford to go back to work’ because of childcare costs but equally can’t afford to live if they don’t go back to work!!! Come on and take some responsibility you knew this was going to be your situation.)

Whilst she was complaining over coffee one day about how the benefit system wasn’t giving her enough free money I called her out on her obvious poor planning and asked why she didn’t wait and save pre child. She got very defensive and said that they were never going to be able to afford a child due to their financial situation so why bother waiting?

It just got me thinking really hard, since when did having children become a right? It seemed so clear to her that she deserved to have a child despite not being able to afford one and that the government should now support her because she deserved to have her daughter.
Am I wrong in thinking that having children you can’t support is completely irresponsible and shitty and entitled?

I know a lot of women who want kids but are having to wait and plan and save and do it ‘the right way’ it seems unfair to them. When women like my ex friend do exactly what they want without planning and then hold the government over a barrel saying that their kids don’t have food and clothes. It just sucks like the children shouldn’t have to suffer but the tax payer shouldn’t have to pay for your unfair choices.

To clarify I have empathy for unplanned pregnancy’s no contraception is 100% but that’s not the kind of situation I’m talking about here. I’m talking about planned pregnancies.

@ministerforcheekyfuckery surely you're aware that the benefit cap is 2 children. So those people having 3rd/4th/5th children won't get any more government assistance.

Outpinked but in the real world people are prepared to live in rented (poor) accommodation all their lives, work until they are 80 and have no pension

The Cap won't stop people having more children, it just means they'll all be worse of due to their own making.

" The government doesn't have any money. "

Ha ha ha. It has money when it wants to. There was plenty in the magic money tree for Mrs May to give to the DUP.

Yes, still our money. It's not magic. You can argue about how it's spent but its still not "the government's money".

My mum couldn't afford me. She was a teenage university student and in keeping me her parents disowned her. We lived on benefits.
She went back to university when I was 5 and became a top rate tax payer, as did I. I like to think we've put back more than we took out.

Yes, of course it's a right. The alternative is the government CHOOSING who gets to have children! Any takers for that option. Plenty of people with absolutely nothing have kids. Many grow up happy and leading fulfilled lives. Of course it's not ideal, but there is no utopia.We are privileged to live in a society which occasionally supports poor life choices. Celebrate that.

Interesting first post, OP.

Welcome to Mumsnet.

The government does not and will not CHOOSE when people have children, stop your nonsense.
What they can do is choose how many children they’re prepared to finance, which is an entirely different thing?
Nothing to stop people having twelve kids if they can afford to do so.

I don't think people should have children if they cannot support them. Relying on benefits to pay for those children isn't right. Granted, in certain circumstances it cannot be helped, but purposely having children whilst having no way to support them is just wrong.

I lived near three families where neither parent worked but they just kept having babies. Two families had five children and the other family had four. They were completely reliant on benefits! I think they saw having children as some sort of income due to the child benefits they received.

As for childcare, it's obviously going to be expensive and that is something that should be considered before deciding to try for a baby.

Someone I know had a planned baby earlier this year and is now panicking because she doesn't know what she will do for childcare. If she goes back to work and puts the baby in childcare, her salary won't cover the cost. If she doesn't go back to work, they won't be bringing enough money in to pay the bills. Whilst I sympathise - surely she knew this before deciding to try for a baby!!

Not a great place to rant about having children and struggling with finances. This is a place for women with children to get support...

Most people struggle with having children. My mum did. My step mum did. I did. The problem is the system which doesn't support families. Go moan to the government about the benefit caps and the universal credit system which are both jokes.

As if women are going to want to abort theor babies against their will because the government won't pay support unless they can prove they've been raped!!

This post is ignorant and offensive.

It's not the government's responsibility to work out how you are going to support your family. No one is saying you can't have children, but it's up to you to pay for them. Of course the government should support those in unexpected hardship, but you shouldn't expect the state to support you indefinitely.

I’d like to chip in on OP’s side here. Surely it’s irresponsible to bring a child into the world when you don’t have a home, low income and lots of debts? Then complain about the fact that the government aren’t paying for said child!
Op wasn’t saying that lower income families shouldn’t have kids or indeed personal circumstances don’t change, they do.
Having a child is not a ‘right’ it’s a blessing and it’s selfish and shortsighted to purposefully have a child/children when you know that you have no means of supporting them

There are so many posts on here where I just think ‘do you not think you should have stopped having children?”

“I can’t cope I’ve got no money and I’ve got 4 chikdren 2 with SN and I’m stuck at home as DH works shifts and we’re in a 2 bed private rental and can’t afford to move”

Yeah, maybe having 4 children was a bit of an error then.

I do think in the future there will be some way of controlling the population.Whether this is a good or bad thing only time will tell .
The government is trying to enable people to make sensible choices by limiting the tax credits to two children . To have children in poverty and then complain that your children are growing up in poverty is bewildering. What did you think would happen ?

I do think life was simpler when you followed an old fashioned path - dated , education, job , married , house then children .
My immediate family and Friends have all done it this way , none of us are living in poverty . The biggest family has three children . Most have two . There haven’t been any accidental pregnancies either . Amazing !🤔

You know the population of Japan is aging and declining right. Because the younger generation arent having kids.

If people in the UK only had kids if they had certain incomes then the UK would go the same way.

Can you imagine the kids of high income family really wanted to work those minimum wage job someone has to work.

Blimey! Are you saying people with low incomes should have kids to supply a workforce for all the low income jobs that need done? Tali

What if someone is doing ok, has a baby and then loses their job?

As a result they need to give up the childcare place, because they can't afford it, then struggle to find another job. And then find there is a waiting list for childcare?

If someone has 3 children and are broke, do they just opt for a termination?

What if after having your second child, with a job and childcare ready after mat leave but you wake up one morning with a slipped disc and can't return to your physical job?

What happens if one partner dies?

What happens if all the working classes stop having kids?

So poor people should keep having children to do the crappy jobs the rich people’s kids don’t want to do ? How insulting !

Mycat it has been highlighted that circumstances can change and I don’t think anyone suggested that ‘working class’ people shouldn’t have children. The State is there for people who find themselves in difficulties, that’s the point. It should not be abused by people who know full well that they cannot afford to raise a child when they don’t work (or have a very low income) are homeless and/or in debt.
What about those who live in social housing on benefits, choosing not to work (why should they get out of bed to earn less than they can claim?) and continue to have kids?

Blimey! Are you saying people with low incomes should have kids to supply a workforce for all the low income jobs that need done? Tali

Did I say that? Dont believe I did.

I could afford another baby if ds2 dad paid a worthwhile contribution to his son

When csa are letting absent parents pay so little (£7 a week divided by 2 coz he's had another baby he can't afford) it's no wonder parents have to rely on benefits.

Why do people persist in doing the “well what if you wake up one morning to find your whole life has changed” bollocks?
Unavoidable circumstances that you couldn’t have seen coming can’t be compared to happily bumbling into the same situation with your eyes wide open.
And it’s bloody obvious what the op was asking, anyway.

You sorta did Tali

Csa aren’t at fault for what your ex does or doesn’t do Bluelonerose. That’s between you and him .

It was certainly implied Tali what did you mean?